Posted on 05/29/2002 2:42:12 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
The 2000 Census revealed that, in at least 13 States surveyed to date, more US residents are speaking Spanish at home. Not English. This is the result of nation’s growing Hispanic population throughout the 1990s. It has risen an astonishing 58 percent to 35.3 million.
In some places such as California, native-born English-speaking business owners are taking Spanish lessons or hiring bilingual employees. Speaking Spanish at home is fine with me, but taking it out to the larger community and, in effect, requiring that it too speak Spanish is just dead wrong. A common language binds Americans to one another. Two languages in the same nation creates two separate communities.
The flow of illegal aliens from Mexico and nations further south is a virtual torrent. In the first six months of this year, the US Border Patrol apprehended 176,655 illegal aliens in just the 21-mile Douglas, Arizona, section alone! The same individual may be apprehended more than once and the Border Patrol estimates that, for every one that is caught, three to five are not! Since 1983, at least a half-million illegal aliens have entered the US from our southern border.
A study by the non-profit Center for Immigration Studies confirms that "annual immigration in 2030 will still approach 400,000 a year, 8.3 to 11.4 percent higher than the 370,000 estimated for 2000." The Mexican-born population of the United States will double to 18 million by the year 2030. There is a powerful incentive for this because, in the last decade, Mexican immigrants sent more than $45 billion to their relatives. In 2000, they sent $6 billion or about $17 million a day!
Federal investigators recently revealed that "tens of thousands of foreigners are illegally obtaining Social Security numbers by using fake documents involving identity theft and other crimes. Federal officials have not yet found a way to search US immigration records to prevent the practice. Using the Social Security identification, the next step is to secure credit cards and even security clearances that permit illegal aliens to work in sensitive areas such as airports. In 200l, the Social Security Administration issued 5.8 million numbers, including 1.5 million to non-citizens.
On May 5th, both the Washington Post and Washington Times reported that the families of eleven illegal immigrants who died while attempting to enter the United States had filed a $41 million lawsuit against two federal agencies. Allow me to provide my standard disclaimer. I do not dislike Mexicans. I don’t even know a Mexican. If a Mexican has come here legally and become an American citizen, bravo! I have no problem with that, but the notion that the United States should be sued because it did not tend to the needs of those entering illegally is just nuts!
According to them, the failure of the United States, specifically the Department of Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife Service, to provide water to Mexicans trying to sneak into America, was the reason they died. Their bodies were found last year in the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge between Tucson and Yuma. That area was being used because, say the attorneys for the families, the US Border Patrol has effectively shut down more populous portions of the Arizona border, thereby forcing illegal aliens to come in through more remote areas.
Well, it should be obvious that the US is to blame, right? Why should we stop at providing water in a desolate desert where ground temperatures can exceed 130 degrees in the summer? Why not a fulltime bus service? Or chauffeured limousines? This Mexican version of an Alice in Wonderland approach to illegal immigration is why, in 1997, according to the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 54% of all illegal immigrants coming into the US were Mexicans.
Could this be because elements of the Mexican government are carrying out a strategic depopulation program, centered around approximately ninety communities in central and southern Mexico? Some informed sources believe this to be the case. Making matters worse, according to Rep. Tom Tancredo (CO-R), since 1996 there have been 118 incursions across the border into the US; 61 by Mexican military and 57 by Mexican law enforcement. At least 60% of the time, the Mexicans were armed. Sometimes US Border guards come under fire.
The INS estimates that, in the past three years, more than a thousand migrants have died of various causes trying to enter the United States illegally. Their deaths, each one of them, were a tragedy, but it seems to me that it is a greater tragedy that Mexico does nothing to stem this human traffic. Maybe if Mexico took steps to improve its economy and provide jobs for its people, they would be working in Mexico instead of sneaking across the border?
And maybe President Bush’s enthusiastic support for yet another amnesty program for illegal aliens is one of the dumbest ideas he’s ever had? We are talking about adding another 200,000 illegal Mexican immigrants to the population. That’s equivalent to adding a city the size of Baton Rouge, Bakersfield or Mobile. All this does is say to Mexicans that, if they can get into the US, they have a fair chance of going to the head of the line when the next amnesty comes. No need to apply for citizenship like others do. No need to come here, get a Green Card, and earn the right to be a citizen. Just sneak across the border.
Our immigration policies are so stupid that the House Judiciary Committee recently voted out Rep. Barney Frank’s HR 1452, misnamed the Family Reunion Act, but in fact is legislation that would permit foreign criminals to stay in this country! It has 52 sponsors, most of whom are from the far Left of the Democrat Party, but that is not a long distance to traverse. The bill would erase the reforms achieved in the landmark 1996 immigration law requiring that, after serving their prison sentence here, they get deported.
This is why, at current rates, between legal and illegal immigration into this nation, we will double our population within the lifetimes of today’s college students.
In the last decade, the 11.2 million immigrants who arrived, plus the 6.4 million children born to immigrants living here, equaled almost 70% of the nation’s population growth. That’s just flat-out too much, too fast.
OK, so you're going to put most of the US military on the border to protect this wall. I thought the idea was to lower your manpower costs.
The cost of such a wall has been discussed by numerous Freepers on these threads, some running for office, since before 9/11.
OK, and someone running for office would have no reason to BS the figures, and there wouldn't be a single solitary cost overrun, and the Davis-Bacom
I know you've been on these threads and have seen the same estimates and numbers as many times as I've seen them. Now, you want to see them, again?
I never saw those estimates to begin with. I have not seen those figures; I mustr have missed the threads in question. Stuff happens.
The way I interpret what Marine Inspector says about the canyons, in spite of how he said it, is they're as good as a wall.<
Then Marine Inspector's an idiot. Those canyons are where a lot of the illegals come through now.
If we have troops patrolling the canyon rim, they can tear gas or blast anyone trying to scale the canyon wall with a water cannon, etc. before they even get a foothold.
OK, so now we're back to having huge numbers of bodies along long stretches of border.b
If you don't believe we can do the job for less than $70 billion dollars a year, in 2000, and steadily increasing amount of U.S. Taxpayer's dollars that the ILLEGAL ALIENS are leeching in social services, how much do you believe it would cost and why?
When you start talking 20-foot-plus pilings, double razor wire on top (which, BTW, is NOT a challenge to breach), surveillance cameras, personnel to make sure the cameras and the razor wire stay intact, and a 2,000 mile length, built at AFL-CIO-defined "prevailing wages," the short answer on cost is "a LOT more than you would believe possible."
Do you think these ILLEGAL ALIENS are going to be driving tanks?
No. Do you think that the illegal aliens are significantly less intelligent than the Viet Cong were?
With sensors, surveillance, modern technology and vehicles, 10,000 military personnel, per shift ought to be plenty to support the Border Patrol.
There won't be millions of illegals to apprehend, anymore. The object will be to never let them cross over, in the first place.
Do you think that the Corps of Engineers consists of a bunch of soldiers just waiting to dig a ditch or something? The only troops doing that sort of thing are in division and corps-level combat engineering units--and they don't have the wherewithal to build a wall of that specification.
It will be built by civilian contractors paying AFL-CIO union scale.
With sensors, surveillance, modern technology and vehicles, 10,000 military personnel, per shift ought to be plenty to support the Border Patrol.
Sensors are extremely vulnerable to damage and theft (the electronics are worth fencing). Non-optical sensors are also vulnerable to false signals. You'll start with hundreds of sensors disappearing every night. Then you'll have false alarms dragging the border agents all over hell's half-acre. In short order, Congress will decide that the sensors aren't working and will quit budgeting for their replacement.
BTW, 10,000 people per shift is only 5 people per mile of border. 25 aliens--or what LOOKS like 25 aliens on a display screen--crossing the wall in one place would pull guards away from five miles of border for an appreciable length of time.
There won't be millions of illegals to apprehend, anymore.
Doubtful in the extreme. There may be a short-term drop in the numbers that will quickly stabilize--and then come back up.
The object will be to never let them cross over, in the first place.
There's only one way to do that, and you just don't have the testicular fortitude to go that route.
If it's that big of a worry, we can add a couple extra thousand military personnel, divided into platoons along the border, to act as a rapid reaction force to shore up the defenses at any particular point on the border as they're needed.
What the Army Corps of Engineers is now and what they could be ramped up to are two different things. We've done it during other national emergencies. How much testicular fortitude do you think it would take to tear gas or blast someone on a ladder with a water cannon?
The military has a new sticky slime that they can use on crowds that will take away their desire to climb.
Ever hear of this amazing piece of technology called a "ladder?" And another amazing piece of technology called a "rope?" They're so simple that even someone who thinks five soldiers per mile of border is enough to do the job could use them.
If it's that big of a worry, we can add a couple extra thousand military personnel, divided into platoons along the border, to act as a rapid reaction force to shore up the defenses at any particular point on the border as they're needed.
Wow. That works out to one more soldier per five miles of border, once you split them out by shift. Gosh, that will just solve the entire problem forever.
What the Army Corps of Engineers is now and what they could be ramped up to are two different things.
OK, so where are you going to get the soldiers to do this?
We've also had this thing called a "draft" that cleared up those pesky manpower issues.
How much testicular fortitude do you think it would take to tear gas or blast someone on a ladder with a water cannon?
By the time you get a water cannon in place to cover the one crossing attempt, you're going to have three or four more successful crossings in return for the one you stopped.
You still don't have the testicular fortitude needed to stop them from trying to cross.
The military has a new sticky slime that they can use on crowds that will take away their desire to climb.
Uh-huh. Sticky foam works wonders--if you can get it on the target. And with five (or, maybe, six) soldiers per mile of border, that little detail is going to be extremely problematic.
We know the cost per mile to build pre-fab concrete walls. We know that cost would be a fraction of other preventative measures. Then, we get arguments that we can't use these physical barriers along our borders because they are so easy to defeat. We have thousands of years of evidence that walls and fences DO work and little evidence they are easy to defeat by unarmed, ill-equipped intruders.
Emotionally I'd like to build a wall, fortify the border, bring the Army home from all overseas stations and form a solid armed phalanx across the southern U.S. Then I realize we might have Vladimir Putin making a speech at the U.N. or on a State visit, imploring: "Mr. Bush, tear down this wall."
No, folks, this situation is a matter of greed, demographics, politics, political correctness and voter apathy. Marine Inspector had it exactly right IMO when he wrote above:
If you wish to stop the flow of illegals, then take away all welfare, jail anyone who hires them and take their businesses, and help build Mexico’s economy.
Until we can mount the political muscle and courage to accomplish those things we can expect an increasingly Hispanic United States of Amexica.
The United States of America has a sovereign right to control its borders and to use any means necessary to do so.
I'd like to see a person stand before representatives of other countries of the world and declare a "right" to enter any country of his/her choice. The laughter would be deafening.
Most countries of the world are not yet consumed with the border stupidity of the politicians and bureaucrats of the United States of America. Leaders of other countries are laughing at our border policies and are doing so for good reason. If we don't recover from this stupidity, those other countries will still exist after we are dissolved.
If this is true, why is El Presidente Fox so eager to allow this valuable human capital to illegally break into America?
Wouldn't one think that he'd want these 'workers' in Mexio to help elevate their economy from it's current third world status?
I agree in principle with what you say. As to means, get real! The "tear down this wall" comment was tongue in cheek and merely to point out how ludicrous walls are to solving problems that stem from other causes. I stand 100% behind the quote from Marine Inspector. I would add one other thing: eliminate the law that says all babies born within the U.S. are automatic citizens.
The biggest attractor for illegals entering this country is jobs. Until we focus like lasers on the people who employ illegals we will accomplish nothing. Since these employers are among the biggest contributors to both political parties, I predict nothing will be done. Welfare as presently enacted has been one of the most destructive forces in our history. It has corrupted entire segments of our native population and citizen taxpayers are now financing the establishment of "Aztlan." Meanwhile, Mexicans gain more political power here by both legal and illegal means. Soon they will be able to control their own destinies in Amexica. I'm watching it happen before my eyes here in Mexifornia. And I was only half joking about the desert tortoises. If you want to see real political action just get in the way of the envirals and the Sahara Club!
exactly. Imagine McDonalds being fined $25,000 for each illegal, and the $1 million plus store being confiscated?
How deep would the foundation have to be to prevent tunneling?
Can you say "minefields"?
I knew you could!
Poohbah and others have been lurking and posting on these threads since 9/11 and before. The way their arguments go is they don't remember anyone breaking it down for them or making rational suggestions of just how a wall could be built and guarded or how many men it would take to do the job. They ask you to believe they have zero short term memory. Then they make wild, irrational, unjustified declarations as to the astronomical cost of building a wall and that, in their opinions, it would require our entire armed forces to guard it.
In Poohbah's case, specifically, he claimed it would take 188,000 military personnel to guard a 30-foot-tall wall on our southern border. That's ridiculous.
Poohbah, asks silly questions like, "have you ever heard of a ladder or a rope?" To which I ask, have you ever heard of VERTIGO?
These kinds of questions can only be asked by someone that's never been 30 feet in the air or tried to climb a 30 foot long rope. With a soft or, deliberately, irregular footing at the base of the wall, the ILLEGAL ALIENS would need a 45 to 60-foot-long ladder!
I recommend this as part of any future citizenship test. You must be able to climb a 45-foot-long ladder and a 30-foot-long rope to scale a 30-foot-tall razorwire protected wall. You must be able to move this ladder and rope into position unseen by military personnel that are equipped with the latest in night vision and electronic surveillance equipment. You must be able to scale the wall against the U.S. military's best efforts to keep you from doing so.
Nobody can do this. The guards would see a gang needed to put such a long ladder into place from miles away. Poohbah, would have you believe that 3 million ILLEGAL ALIENS, using their 'super ninja power of invisibility', could approach the wall, in groups of 25, put a 45 to 60-foot-long ladder into place and climb it, get down on the other side and escape without apprehension, each year. Sorry, not the 5'2", 250 pounders I've seen, using food stamps and unable to speak English, in the grocery lines.
Not even Miss Marple's super, ninja landscapers could do this.
Another thing, Poohbah claims, is an additional 5 servicemen in a Humvee, to be called to assist anywhere in a 5 mile zone along the border, isn't enough. Ok, make it an additional 5 servicemen for every 2.5 miles of border. That's still only 14,000 servicemen per shift, 42,000 total and a far cry from the 188,000 Poohbah claimed would be needed.
Remember the URL's for these threads and remind these other Freepers of these discussions we've had, here, and of the facts and figures they've been given, when they try to start this whole discussion all over, from the beginning, again.
Enforcing existing prohibitions against hiring ILLEGAL ALIENS will not keep former KGB, Central European and Russian Special Forces members of the Red Mafia, the Japanese Yakuza, the Chinese Triads, Muslim terrorists, drug smugglers, MEXICAN MILITARY, Red Chinese spies and assasins, etc., etc., etc. from crossing our borders. Make it harder for them to enter.
Marine Inspector is wrong to claim that, because he hasn't seen any proof that these criminal elements enter our country this way, that they don't. Like he believes that out of the 80%, of all ILLEGAL ALIENS making the attempt, that get through, none of them are members of these groups, as well. If the Border Patrol admits that 80% of those that attempt to cross our borders make it, how in the hell do they have any idea who they were?
That's naivete to the power of 10.
I don't believe there is a specific law that makes babies born in the USA, to non-citizens, citizens. I believe it's a flawed interpretation of the 14th Amendment that should be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court.
What is our government thinking when they let tourists, that are 9 months pregnant, off the plane? How in the world do these women get through Customs? Why doesn't the Customs Agent ask the obvious, 'Are you way pregnant and close to term, lady?' Why can't they say, 'Turn around lady, you're going back?'!!!
Jim Red, if our military says it needs anti-tortoise and anti-elk landmines along the borders, it's fine with me. ;^)
I suspect that all of them were Clinton supporters during the impeachment who have now switched sides after learning what a liberal Bush is.
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