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To: kattracks
Maybe Ballard's study of the wreck can shed light on the details of the sinking. A PT boat was, and is one of the most maneuverable and agile boats on the water. So how did JFK manage to get rammed? .

Take notice how this article was written, "The PT 109 sank in August 1943 after it was hit by a Japanese warship." . This reads like the boat sank as a result of battle. Whereas the word "rammed" suggests incompetence.

7 posted on 05/29/2002 2:29:53 AM PDT by M.K. Borders
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To: M.K. Borders
So how did JFK manage to get rammed?

You know, I have often wondered how one could get a very light, very fast, and extremely manueverable craft athwartships a destroyer. Unless the engines were out, I would have to say it is incompetence.
8 posted on 05/29/2002 3:06:35 AM PDT by wasp69
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To: M.K. Borders
Maybe Ballard's study of the wreck can shed light on the details of the sinking. A PT boat was, and is one of the most maneuverable and agile boats on the water. So how did JFK manage to get rammed? . Take notice how this article was written, "The PT 109 sank in August 1943 after it was hit by a Japanese warship." . This reads like the boat sank as a result of battle. Whereas the word "rammed" suggests incompetence.

Exactly!

14 posted on 05/29/2002 4:41:41 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: M.K. Borders
"Whereas the word "rammed" suggests incompetence. "

Yeah, I'm really torn by this. I find it hard to believe that JFK swam for 15 hours towing another guy by his teeth. At the same time, he WAS actually participating in the war effort and the men with him certainly deserve to be remembered for their contributions. I would love to know the facts behind all this.

15 posted on 05/29/2002 4:54:32 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost
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To: M.K. Borders; wasp69
FYI..if a PT boat was surprised by a Jap destroyer, as often happened as neither rarely had radar, the PT boat was highly vulnerable to the Jap's guns. PT boat skippers often found it safer to CLOSE the Jap ships,because the Jap guns could not depress the elevation enough to hit the PT boats when they were in close..the shells went right over them...
20 posted on 05/29/2002 5:03:32 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: M.K. Borders
From what I understand, the 109 was idling, and therefore moving at a crawl. And, unless you have been on the ocean at night, you just don't really know how dark, darkness can truly be. Having spent my fair share of time at sea, I could see that the 109 was pretty much in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The story of the PT 109 crew's survival is truly one of courage and bravery in times of war. Something that our present and previous president cannot relate to. BTW, I am referring to "W's" military record and not his presidency. What Bush is going through now is not a fair comparison. There were no advisors on the 109.

21 posted on 05/29/2002 5:05:06 AM PDT by MJM59
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To: M.K. Borders
On the night of August 1, fourteen boats were ordered into Blackett Strait from the Rendova PT base in anticipation of the Bougainville Express running into Vila. Four patrol sections were formed: 1st, under Lt. G. C. Cookman was stationed in Ferguson Passage; 2nd, under Lt. W. Rome, whose station was East of Makuti Island; 3rd, under Lt. A. H. Berndston stationed between Makuti Island and Kolombangara; and the 4th, the section in which PT 109 was a part, under Lt. E. J. Brantingham stationed five miles West of the 3rd section. Lt. Brantinghams' boats were further subdivided into two sections; PT 159, radar equipped, operating with PT 157, while PT 162, under the command of Lt.(jg) J. R. Lowrey, was the lead boat of the second section with PT 109 following. PTs 159 and 162 both carried TBYs for inter-boat communications. Instructions were issued to Lt.(jg) Jack Kennedy, captain of PT 109, to follow closely on PT 162's starboard quarter, which would keep in touch with the radar equipped PT 159 by TBY. [Portable radio equipment of low power used as emergency for TBS.]

All boats departed from Rendova at 1830 and reached their patrol station about 2030. The 4th section patrolled without incident until gunfire and a searchlight were seen in the direction of the southern shore of Kolombangara. No radio or other warning had been received of enemy activity in the area. It was impossible to ascertain whether the searchlight came from shore or from a ship close into shore. Presumably it was not a ship as PT 162 retired on a westwardly course toward Gizo Strait. PT 109 followed and inquired as to the source of the firing. PT 162 replied that it was believed to be from a shore battery. However, PT 109 intercepted the following sudden terse radio message: "I am being chased through Ferguson Passage. Have fired fish". That was all, but it was enough to inform the group that an action with the enemy was in progress, and a significant one. At this time PT 169 came alongside to inquire about the firing in Blackett Strait and to report that one of her engines was out of order. PT 169 lay to with PTs 109 and 162 to await developments.

In the meantime all contact with PT 109 had been lost. Instructions from base were requested and orders were received to resume normal patrol station. PT 162, being uncertain as to its position, requested PT 109 lead the way back to the patrol station, which it proceeded to do. When Lt. Kennedy thought he had reached the original patrol station, he started to patrol on one engine at idling speed.

The time was about 0230. Ensign Ross was on the bow as lookout: Ensign Thom was standing beside the cockpit: Lt. Kennedy was at the wheel, and with him in the cockpit was McGuire, his radioman; Marney was in the forward turret; Mauer, the quartermaster was standing beside Ensign Thom; Albert was in the after turret; and McMann was in the engine room. The location of other members of the crew upon the boat is unknown. Suddenly a dark shape loomed up on PT 109's starboard bow 200-300 yards in the distance. At first this shape was believed to be other PTs. However, it was soon seen to be a [Japanese] destroyer identified as the Ribiki Group of the Fubuki Class bearing down on PT 109 at high speed. The 109 had started to turn to starboard preparatory to firing torpedoes. However, when PT 109 had scarcely turned 30, the destroyer rammed the PT, striking it forward of the forward starboard tube and shearing off the starboard side of the boat aft, including the starboard engine. The destroyer traveling at an estimated speed of 40 knots neither slowed nor fired as she split the PT, leaving part of the PT on one side and the other on the other. Scarcely 10 seconds elapsed between time of sighting and the crash.

A fire was immediately ignited, but, fortunately, it was gasoline burning on the water's surface at least 20 yards away from the remains of the PT which were still afloat. This fire burned brightly for 15-20 minutes and then died out. It is believed that the wake of the destroyer carried off the floating gasoline there by saving PT 109 from fire.

Lt. Kennedy, Ensigns Thom and Ross, Mauer, Mc McGuire and Albert still clung to the PT 109's hull. Lt. Kennedy ordered all hands to abandon ship when it appeared the fire would spread to it. All soon crawled back aboard when this danger passed. It was ascertained by shouting that Harris, McMahon and Starkey were in the water about 100 yards to the Southwest while Zinser and Johnson were an equal distance to the Southeast. Kennedy swam toward the group of three, and Thom and Ross struck out for the other two. Lt. Kennedy had to tow McMahon, who was helpless because of serious burns, back to the boat. A strong current impeded their progress, and it took about an hour to get McMahon aboard PT 109. Kennedy then returned for the other two men, one of whom was suffering from minor burns. He traded his life belt to Harris, who was uninjured in return for Harris's waterlogged kapok life jacket which was impeding the latters' swimming. Together they towed Starkey to the PT.

Meanwhile, Ensigns Thom and Ross had reached Zinser and Johnson who were both helpless because of gas fumes. Thom towed Johnson, and Ross took Zinser and Johnson who were both helpless because of gas fumes. Thom towed Johnson, and Ross took Zinser. Both regained full consciousness by the time the boat was reached.

Within three hours after the crash all survivors who could be located were brought aboard PT 109. Marney and Kirksey were never seen after the crash. During the three hours it took to gather the survivors together, nothing was seen or heard that indicated other boats or ships in the area. PT 109 did not fire its Very pistols for fear of giving away its position to the enemy.

Meanwhile the IFF [Identification, friend or foe] and all codes aboard had either been completely destroyed or sunk in the deep waters of Vella Gulf. Despite the fact that all water- tight doors were dogged down at the time of the crash, PT 109 was slowly taking on water. When daylight of August 2 arrived, the eleven survivors were still aboard PT 109. It was estimated that the boat lay about 4 miles north and slightly east of Gizo Anchorage and about 3 miles away from the reef along northeast Gizo.

It was obvious that the PT 109 would sink on the 2nd, and decision was made to abandon it in time to arrive before dark on one of the tiny islands east of Gizo. A small island 3 1/2 - 4 miles to the southeast of Gizo was chosen on which to land, rather than one but 2 1/2 miles away which was close to Gizo, and, which, it was feared, might be occupied by the Japs.

Source

172 posted on 05/30/2002 8:13:00 AM PDT by Tennessee_Bob
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To: M.K. Borders
Kennedy's father fabricated the tale of the PT109. Most of the crew admitted after the rescue they expected to be court marshalled for losing their boat in such a stupid manner. The Kennedy clan needed a hero's tale and this is best they could come up with.
200 posted on 05/30/2002 11:09:51 AM PDT by Dogs in the field
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