Without an Attorney, Boy Falters Before Judge

St. Petersburg Times ^ | 5/28/02 | Kathryn Wexler

[FreeTally]

"Mr. Elias, do you have a lawyer representing you in this matter?" Nielsen asked the youth at the beginning of the hearing. He said he did not.

"So, Ms. Dampf is no longer representing you in this matter, is that correct?" Nielsen asked.

Yes, Elias said.

"All right, well we're going to proceed . . . at this time," Nielsen said.

Looks like he understood that he wasn't going to have representation and STATED that the previous attorney was no longer representing him.

Soon after, Nielsen asked Elias whether he had trouble understanding English.

"No, but sometimes the words you all use, like, um, I don't really get 'em that much. But I understand English," said Elias, whose family is Puerto Rican.

He knew what was being said. He knew from the get go he would be facing restitution. He and his mother were trying to play the system, just like you court types like because it pays you more.

Go bleed for real injustice.

[Catspaw]

Really!? I hope she is being posecuted now. She can't legally tape that under Florida law.

No, but the Courts legally tape.  All she had to do was buy a copy of the tape of the proceeding from the appropriate court official.

Here's the order from the Hillsborough County courts in PDF format.  

http://www.fljud13.org/AO/DOCS/95-069.pdf

The text of the order is below:

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IN THE THIRTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT COURT

FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA

ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER NO. S-15-27-95-69

(Supersedes Administrative Order S-27-86-55-i)

IN RE: ELECTRONIC RECORDING OF COURT PROCEEDINGS

WHEREAS

Florida Rule of Judicial Administration 2.070 authorizes the use of electronic

voice recording equipment in all Circuit and County Courts for the purpose of recording all

proceedings required by law to be reported, ordered by the court to be recorded, or requested by the

parties in an action (the "recordings"), and the recording will constitute official court records; and

WHEREAS

the court may order any proceeding stenographically reported, even when

electronic recording is available, when, in the opinion of the court, the rights of the parties will be

better safeguarded by stenographic reporting. It is therefore

ORDERED:

The following procedures, rules and regulations shall govern the electronic recording of the

court proceedings in the Thirteenth Judicial Circuit:

1.

All county criminal court proceedings shall be electronically recorded except when

ordered otherwise by the court.

2.

Operating and transcribing of electronic recordings of court proceedings shall be by

Electronic Court Reporters, with qualifications established by the chief judge or a designee, so as to

ensure the recordings are made by individuals with the ability to record and transcribe and who are

sufficiently responsible to certify as to the correctness of the transcript. The Electronic Court

Reporters will be under the direction and control of the chief judge. Policies and administrative

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procedures relating to the electronic Court Reporters will be implemented by the court administrator

or a designated representative or both.

3.

Electronic recording equipment shall be operated by qualified personnel in such

manner and under such conditions as to ensure the production of a readable record of all proceedings.

When proceedings are being recorded, the Electronic Court Reporter shall monitor the recording

input and immediately notify a designated court official when the quality of the recording is doubtful.

4.

All Electronic Court Reporters will prepare transcripts of court proceedings during

regular working hours and shall not be eligible to retain fees for the preparation of transcripts.

Overtime compensation at the rate of one and one-half times the regular rate of pay will be provided

for all hours worked in any one week in excess of forty hours.

5.

Transcripts or tapes provided at the request of any party or parties other than the state

attorney's office or public defender's office will be detailed and certified by the Electronic Court

Reporter's Office. Collection of fees for this service will be made at the rates authorized in the

administrative order regarding court reporters' fees in effect at the time of the request. Cassette tape

recordings may be purchased at the rate authorized in the governing administrative order in effect at

the time of the request. Unless canceled before actual transcription, any party having ordered a

transcript shall be obligated to pay the cost of such transcription. All fees collected will be accounted

for and submitted to Hillsborough County in a manner deemed appropriate by the clerk of the circuit

court.

6.

Any interested party may order a transcript or tape of a court action. The request shall

designate with particularity that portion of the proceedings on the recorded tape that is needed for

the party's purpose. A party who, having ordered a transcript or tape, fails to immediately notify the

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Electronic Court Reporter that the transcript or tape is no longer required, shall be obligated to pay

the cost of the transcript or tape and the County shall not bear the expense. Requests for expedited

transcripts of court proceedings will be accepted only upon order of the court following written

motion showing good cause.

7.

The Electronic Court Reporter preparing the transcript shall certify the transcript as

a true and accurate text of the tape. If any dispute arises as to whether any transcript truly discloses

what occurred, the dispute shall be submitted to and settled by the court and the transcript made to

conform accordingly.

8.

All transcripts of judicial proceedings shall be uniform in size and method of typing

and in conformity with the provisions of Florida Rule of Judicial Administration 2.070(g).

9.

The Electronic Court Reporters shall maintain a detailed, accurate, legible record of

all proceedings recorded on each magnetic tape. All magnetic tapes, properly identified, together

with copies of the recording log, will be stored by the clerk of the circuit and county courts. The

clerk's office will make provisions for ready accessibility of the tapes.

10.

Administrative Order S-27-86-55i is hereby rescinded.

11.

This Administrative Order shall be effective on July 17, 1995.

DONE AND ORDERED

in Chambers in Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, this 7th day

of July, 1995.

/S/ F. Dennis Alvarez

F. Dennis Alvarez, Chief Judge

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cc:

All Circuit and County Court Judges

Richard Ake, Clerk of the Court

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[Catspaw]

He knew what was being said. He knew from the get go he would be facing restitution. He and his mother were trying to play the system, just like you court types like because it pays you more.

Ah, so the Constitution is optional? How nice. Does that also apply to the 2nd Amendment? Are you willing to have your 2nd Amendment rights abridged because some judge feels like it on that particular day and time? How about your 1st Amendment rights? If a judge feels like it on that particular day and time, can he abridge your freedom of religion and speech?

Which parts of the Constitution are you willing to have abridged? Which rights are you willing to give up?

[FreeTally]

Elias clearly indicated that he wasn't having an attorney. Its most likely that the mother refused to pay after the kid was convicted. He didn't need one anyway. Its not up to him or an attorney to decide the restitution amount. I don't care that people such as you, and the courts, have construed restitution hearings to be a criminal matter, they are civil, and he didn't need an attorney anyway.

[FreeTally]

You already stated that you a) are not from Florida and b) are just a lowly paralegal, so, I think you need to stop commenting on Florida law, ok?

[FreeTally]

Which parts of the Constitution are you willing to have abridged? Which rights are you willing to give up?

No part of the Constitution was abridged. He was paying civil restitution.

[SauronOfMordor]

The judge wouldn't know the kid from Adam, so what was there about this kid to let the judge know there was any reason at all to show him any respect? Do you really believe that you have a right to be respected when you don't show respect to anyone else?

The kid just learned a valuable life-lesson: DO NOT piss off somebody who has the ability to make your life a living hell, unless you really need to.

Also, there is a difference between "having respect" and "showing respect". I "show respect" to managers at work, even if I think they're complete idiots. I "show respect" to people I meet on the street, saying "please", "excuse me", and "thank you", even if I don't know them and don't expect to ever meet them again.

[BraveMan]

While all the high-minded "my aim is true" idealists in this forum are waving their copies of the Constitution and bemoaning their righteous indignation over the outrageous lack of due process, Juan Carlos Elias is walking the street looking for another victim to jack.

Only someone with their head in the clouds would condesend to believe some great travesty of justice occurred here. Juan Carlos Elias and his frustrated mother/enabler attempted to play the judicial system like some cheap board game. Well, guess what? They didn't win at their little contest of "Beat The System", in spite of all the assistance given to them by this jerkoff reporter, Kathryn Wexler.

I, for one, will not lose a moment of sleep fretting over this scumbag's lack of counsel. My only regret is I probably won't have an opportunity to defecate on Kathryn Wexler's desk . . .

[FreeTally]

Explain to me, in logical terms, after one has been found guilty, why the person still needs an attorney? Don't use screwed-up "legal theory", explain to me why a person who was found guilty needs an attorney. Nothing an "attorney" says should have any bearing on the sentence - only the crime should. This is reality. Too bad our court system doesn't opertate in it.

Not that this has anything to do with civil restitution.....

[Catspaw]

You already stated that you a) are not from Florida and b) are just a lowly paralegal, so, I think you need to stop commenting on Florida law, ok?

OOOooo, I'm soooo stung by your personal attack, I really am.

I'm talking about the Constitution. What part of that don't you understand?

And it was criminal restitution in a criminal case.

[Catspaw]

They do not want to give up any of their Constitutional rights.

They want to give up anyone's Constitutional rights that is different,or doesn't agree with them, or isn't a member of their "club.

Ah, so the Constitution only applies to *THEM* because their rights stand far above others, but the Constitution doesn't apply to the masses. Now I get it. The Constitution is only applicable to those who dress nicely and can afford a lawyer.

But hey, what do I know--I'm just a lowly paralegal. I'll let the lawyers I work for know that the next time they ask me a question about criminal law they don't know but I do. I'll tell them, "hey, I'm just a lowly paralegal. I can't possibly know this. You're the lawyer. You went to law school. You know all." Of course, in order to unlock my brain and lips, it might take a hefty bonus, a really big fat bonus. And more vacation time. And a new computer. And...and...and....

[HardStarboard]

>>>the boy you refer to as son and advised to learn our ways, is an American citizen. <<<

Thats even sadder. He is obviously the product of ineffective NEA dominated schooling, parents that are not motivated to motivate him, and the stupidity of those who thought he could be his own lawyer.

My statement still stands - son, you better learn the ways and rules of the country you live in....citizen or not!!

[MeekOneGOP]

Sounds like another case of the Judicial System with a case of the Keystone Cops
Syndrome. That new judge was inexperienced. And inept in his oversight of pushing
the kid into defending himself.