Abortion Protesters Use Cameras, Raise New Legal Issues, Lawsuits

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Tuesday, May 28, 2002 | YOCHI J. DREAZEN

[TroutStalker]

DENVER -- As soon as he saw the blue minivan turning into the parking lot of Planned Parenthood's small abortion clinic here, Kenneth Scott grabbed his digital camera, clambered up his rickety metal ladder and started snapping pictures.

"You'll have nightmares about this day the rest of your life," he bellowed, photographing the blond woman gingerly leaving the minivan. Then he turned his camera to her escort. "Your sin won't be hidden or forgotten," he screamed.

[Economist_MA]

If she can get to someone who cares, someone at an abortion alternative center, for example, they can help her to see how she has been used, then acheive the strength to make her own decision. If she goes to someone who makes a living by selling death to her unborn child, she has no help.

That seems a pretty reasonable statement to me. I fail to see though how the actions of the pro-life activists described in the article are geared towards bringing any women to an abortion alternative center, or in fact towards anything remotely constructive.

[ArGee]

Let's also put cameras in front of all the strip clubs and gay joints in every town in America, than show the pictures of the customers on the internet.

I believe that is being done. Not outside of all of them, but one or two of them. I read about it here on FR.

Shalom.

[Bump in the night]

You want to change the definition because you think it is okay to discard human life if it happens to get in the way of free sex.

I keep seeing this "free sex" thing on this thread. I'm lost. What does "free sex" have to do with abortion? Not everyone that receives an abortion got pregnant by having wild orgies and unprotected sex with multiple unknown partners. I know someone that got pregnant who had been married for years, didn't want children, used a condom and spermicide and got pregnant anyway. Wild "free sex" people, as you call them, are not the only ones who need or get abortions.

[ArGee]

It was many years later that I accepted Christ and found that scripture is actually silent on the issue.

Directly, but not indirectly.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

You self-rigtheous holier-than-thou types think you own the only possible definition. Well, you don't.

What definition do you posit?

Shalom.

[weegee]

...and about 45 seconds to find the lovely statement "Arrest Homosexuals".

Actually a number of states still prohibit homosexualy relations. Here in Texas a gay couple conspired to try to get it struck down in the courts (rather than appeal to legislators to change it). They set up a goofy deal where they had sex with the front door unlocked, the neighbor called 911 to report the sounds of "an assault" going on next door, and police entered to see a homosexual act in progress and dutifully cited the men as being in violation of the law. The judge didn't buy it.

Funny thing is that even though homosexual acts are outlawed, the city of Houston tried to extend "same-sex partner" benefits to city workers. Seems to me that they are approving of law-breakers. Same with the school programs to teach about homosexuality. They are educating future law-breakers on the techniques.

[Bump in the night]

I fail to see how this advances the pro-life cause, or how anyone will be persuaded to be pro-life as a result of these out-of-control tactics. It will only serve to harden hearts.

I thought the same thing. I don't think that this tactic is going to change anyone's mind about abortion. To those that are pro-choice, I think it only makes the pro-life people look like jerks. It won't help the cause.

[Zeroisanumber]

Wow! The courts will shut these guys down before you can say "Jack Robinson".

[JMJ333]

Free sex is where the majority of abortions originate. People want to be able to have sex without any consequences, hence the need for contraception. Contraception fails and so then an innocent and defenseless life is needlessly and violently killed--out of selfishness and the shirking of responsibility.

There is onlt several days out of the month in which a woman is fertile. Abstain from the time a woman is fertile and prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That is what I am arguing for--the waste of life caused by selfish abhorrent behavior---that...and to beg for mercy on those who don't deem worthy of life because they have only been in existance a few weeks.

[ArGee]

then the only person here that has given evidence of being self-righteous is you.

Give that man a kewpie doll.

Three hypocricies on FR that really gripe my cookies:

1. When people self-righteously accuse me of being self-righteous.
2. When people try to force their morality on me by telling me that I am wrong to try to force my morality on them.
3. When people who believe they are right accuse me of believing I am right.

Shalom.

[Economist_MA]

a number of states still prohibit homosexualy relations.

Most (all?) of these states actually prohibit "sodomy", which by its standard definition includes many heterosexual practices which anyone who has a moderately interesting sexlife should experience on a regular basis. Let'snot start a discussion about the basis or lack thereof with which the state tries to legislate bedroom behavior between consenting adults, there are plenty other threads on FR to do this.

[Economist_MA]

Abstain from the time a woman is fertile and prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That is what I am arguing for

So anyone who has counted the days and still got pregnant can have an abortion? And why is counting days any better than simply taking the pill? Are differences in failure rates what you base your argument on?

[geaux]

That's one of the biggest problems I have with the abortion issue -- pro-choicers have to lie to maintain the public's acceptance. They don't want anyone to know that, despite the fact that abortion is legal, it's still a dangerous procedure. So, clinics refuse to call ambulances. Sometimes, a clinic will not bring the woman to the hospital, opting instead to attempt treatment in the clinics, despite the fact that they don't have the proper equipment. The public never hears about the injuries and deaths that occur in these clinics to the women who seek their services, and so, the public continues to believe, erroneously, that abortion is safe.

They also lie to the woman during the examination, telling her that they cannot determine the sex of the child, or telling her that she's not as far along as she originally thought, or that she does not have twins. They do not let her see the sonogram. Therefore, women, especially those who would be prone to change her mind if she knew everything about the status of her pregnancy, are duped into undergoing the abortion.

They also lie about the reasons women have abortions. It's not because of rape, incest, life of the mother, or a severely deformed child. It's the "Ooops" factor -- young, unmarried women "had an accident" that "needed to be taken care of."

Leaving religion out of it, nobody who is intellectually honest with themselves can support the pro-choice movement. It requires amazing mental gymnastics to justify their cause.

[ArGee]

1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048......2^x-power?

I heard a French cellular biologist on the radio one time. I can't recall his name. He was an atheist but believed that life began at conception. He told the interviewer that cells in an embryo don't go 1-2-4-8-16-... but 1-2-3-4-8-16... He could not explain why the 3, but it is always there.

He then went on to explain that if he caught the embryo (zygote?) at only two cells, he could remove one cell, replace it with a cell from another embryo, and the two cells would continue to grow as one organism. However, once the embryo had achieved the three cell stage this was no longer possible. The embryo would die if he removed one of the three cells and replaced it with a cell from another embryo.

From that he concluded that the embryo was a living being from the 3 cell stage.

Shalom.

[Zeroisanumber]

There was a minor who died in Houston a few years back from internal bleeding. She had a legal abortion and kept her parents in the dark. We hear about how many women would die from "illegal" abortions if the law changes but I don't ever see published stats on how many woman die from legal abortions.

Do you have any idea how many people die from injuries recieved during routine medical procedures every year?

[JMJ333]

So anyone who has counted the days and still got pregnant can have an abortion? And why is counting days any better than simply taking the pill? Are differences in failure rates what you base your argument on?

No, you missed my point. I am arguing that contraception is linked directly to abortion and that it is selfish behavior to kill instead of taking responsibility for the consequences of sex.

A 'culture' of inverted sexuality

This sums up my views on the issue of contracpetion.

[ArGee]

Apparently, some people believe that a single cell is life and it would be wrong to kill it.

I'm going to presume that you know the difference between a fertilized ovum and, say, one of your skin cells, right? You're only using an extremist argument to make a point, right?

OK, so what if we don't decide a fertilized ovum is a life. What if we decide it has to multiply to 3 cells first, like that French biologist I was talking about. Or maybe we should use the 16 cell stage?

How many abortions do you know of that occur between the first and the 16th cell?

Shalom.

[geaux]

IMHO these people do more damage to the pro-life movement than anyone else by driving anyone remotely moderate away.

I agree.

[ArGee]

I've missed you too.

Shalom.

(Dare I say, BRAAD to the bone?)

[Zeroisanumber]

If you really want to cut down on the number of abortions then mandate sex ed and distribute free birth-control. The problem wouldn't evaporate, but it would alleviate the damage done.