Posted on 05/27/2002 7:44:48 AM PDT by Slam
Mine too. With a few more like him, and more emphasis on SF rather than sending over planeloads of cannon fodder, the casualties on our side would have been much lower
Another great warrior who deserves more recognition than will ever happen. What a strange sort of prejudice the military has toward these men. Somehow it's legit to designate the targets they are given, but not acknowledge the great significance of their achievements.
I believe only those who have fought the enemy on the ground - and seen them - appreciate these men.
It doesn't help when the headlines call them "Murder Inc.".
Hathcock will never get the CMH because he made it look too easy. Hold off an entire company of the enemy with just a another soldier to spot for him?!? Child's play. Crawl to an enemy compound and kill a enemy General surrounded by his army?!? Child's play. Hunt down a sniper who was sent out specifically to kill you?!? Child's play. Yeah, there's nothing to this trigger pulling stuff. < sarcasm to the highest extreme. >
The history and effectiveness of American Snipers goes back to the French and Indian War to the Rev. War, the War of 1812 to the present.
The cost effectiveness and strategic effectiveness of the sniper is what scares many of the multi starred brass of the Army and Marine Corp and now the Navy with snipers in the Seal ranks.
They kill the enemy in the most cost effective manner. Also, by targeting enemy officers and lead NCO's, they devastate the enemies command structure. Our guys in combat continue to fight when their commanders get taken out in combat. Often our enemies will surrender in mass when their tyranical commanders get taken out or they retreat in mass.
Our new space age snipers will be the remote controlled UMV's with the ability to spot the enemy leaders and take them out with rockets fired hundreds or thousands of miles away. They, too, after this war on terrorism will become despised by the brass and those who depend on strong enemies being alive to make their living.
If the Jag Off lawyer had not prevent the taking out of Omar in the early days of the Afghanistan war, the war in Afghanistan would have been over even faster.
The Islamic thugs who are in command present tremendous targets of opportunity. In Iran if the top 100 Mullahs and top 100 Iran military were taken out by Predator UMV's and snipers. That would be it for the Islamic thugs in control. The war would be over before it started. If that happened, even Saddam might just surrender.
That must be why the Corps mustered Hathcock out just a few days before his 20 years, so they wouldn't have to pay him a dime, not a single lousy dime, of retirement pay.
Semper f*cking Fi! Indeed!
Perhaps. However, I continue to believe in the minds of the "common man" there is a negative tilt attached to what snipers are assigned to do. The reasoning seems to go - theirs is not a straight-up fight. Thus, they cannot be awarded hero status. It's wrong-headed, but there just the same.
God Bless Sgt. Hathcock. A true American combat hero to those who have been there.
Perhaps the brass themselves are threatened at a personal level by effective snipers. I've wondered about that before. In any conflict, aren't Command & Control always targets? Hmmm.
The MOH should ONLY given to those who commit acts of supreme bravery with no consideration given to their own safety.
Remember Dugout Doug, et al.
Sniper's Serenity
A green phantom stalks these lands,
Three Oh Eight in a Master's hands.
Chamber a matched, perfect round,
Slide home the bolt, forward and down.
Stay detached, loose and cool,
Time your breathing, remember the rule.
Get them now, kill them clean,
before they can hurt another Marine.
The first dies quick, the second has looked,
that one dies fast, a third has booked.
Number Three goes down, sight on Number Four,
this one's for my Brothers, Brothers of the Corps.
Even now at home, I remember that scene,
the four of them and a young Marine,
I would do it again, once more with pride,
to protect my Marines, the enemy has died.
Jungle Vet '95 by Robert W. Baird 1/1D, 1st Platoon, Team "West Orange"
In my analysis there are many other factors, besides the raw numbers, the number of men (and women) that were killed, that determines who might of been the "best"...and most are subjective...and that's fine as we all have and are entitled to our opinions.
I doubt if either of those warriors had or would ever want a discussion (especially by any of us mere mortals) as to who was better or who killed the most.
We can say that both were "better than most," pretty darned good and be fairly certain that we were correct. But did they ever shoot off against each other at a match?
Semper Fi.
the infowarrior
The guys who stop the sniper programs are in the Pentagon and never near the field.
One Marine Major or Captain in the field with 5 to 10 Sniper teams was a very effective way of destroying the field command leadership and a lot of NCO's of the enemy. A bolt action rifle with a good scope is not expensive and a few boxes of rounds for each venture is cheap. Our snipers represented a real danger to big budgets and expensive war toys that may not work. That has been the problem with the brass.
They are/were by their nature just too difficult for The Brass to control to the extent that is the basis for the very fiber of said Brass' exalted being on high....
You are so wrong. A 20 year hitch is actually 19 and 6. The kept him unitl he had cleared the full retirement requirements. Don't be talking bad about my Marine Corps.
Thanks for posting this. I was not totally aware of this problem, but it makes sense.
Again the scale of economies in waging a war enter into this. We know how effective our spec ops were in Iraq, when they lazed targets. That effectiveness has been fine honed in the Afghan battles. Communications have improved and all Air Services work with all of our Spec Ops on the ground when they are finding targets. This eliminates the need of expensive and potentially dangerous bombing runs which saturate a target area. Often one or two guided bombs into or on a lazed target is all that is needed. Or a CIA manned Predator can be used to eliminate the command guys of the enemy.
I felt that both in Panama and Grenada our Seal Teams were put into bad situations. Bad situations that made them vulnerable as small units with minimal fire power against larger enemy forces with more massive firepower. Those situations lead to the death and wounding of seals. Were those seals placed there to be harmed by those who were jealous of their real potential? I don't think that will be done again with Rummy and GW in charge.
Thanks for your feedback and comments here.
And the reported rules of engagement during the assault on Noriega's private escape pod were a prescription for mayhem and tragedy raining down on -- once again -- our SEALs. Your suggestion that the SEALs were set up (by jealous "Brass?")in Granada and/or Panama is indeed chilling but, I pray, entirely outside the realm of possibility...
As Will Rogers once said, "All I know is what I read in the newspapers"(and other sources, in the present case). Take care...
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