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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
The supremacy clause basically states that the constitution is the supreme law of the land (please don't pick nits about "laws in pursuance thereof" or treaties.

I simply asked you what powers the Supremacy clause contained if it were the only clause. Even more so because you base your argument on it. I acknowledge that the Constitution (and laws made pursuant to it) are above state constitutions and laws - WHERE the federal government has been delegated authority.

If the constitution is the supreme law of the land, then all powers delegated to the federal government are part and parcel of this also.

Excellent, you do understand the 10th. Where has the Constitution been delegated the power to prohibit secession? Where is it written that the contract is permanent and unbreakable? Why did the founders NOT include the word "perpetual" (which they used 5 times in the Articles), "permanent", "unbreakable" or any other synonym? In what clause or section if the Constitution is this elusive delegation of powers to be discovered?

810 posted on 06/03/2002 12:03:48 PM PDT by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Excellent, you do understand the 10th. Where has the Constitution been delegated the power to prohibit secession? Where is it written that the contract is permanent and unbreakable? Why did the founders NOT include the word "perpetual" (which they used 5 times in the Articles), "permanent", "unbreakable" or any other synonym? In what clause or section if the Constitution is this elusive delegation of powers to be discovered?

I've said this before, but I guess I have to say it again.  Only the federal government has the power to make treaties, regulate interstate commerce and, for that matter, make laws pursuant to the constitution.  All powers delegated to the federal government are enumerated in said constitution.  If said constitution is the supreme law of the land, no state can make treaties, set aside the federal government, or make any law which trumps the constitution.  Every seceding state made laws which elevated state laws above the constitution.  Every CSA state except Tennessee set aside the constitutional form of government that had been set up at founding.  Every state that joined the CSA rejected the U.S. constitution (although the CSA constitution was similar) and thus rejected the validity of the supremacy clause.  The federal government is the only U.S. government authorized under the constitution to treat with foreign powers.  Every state in the CSA did so (by leaving the Union, they were asserting their supremacy over the constitution.  By joining the CSA, they were exercising treaty power).

Article I, Section 10 says:
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

We see from this that the CSA broke the constitution by keeping troops, attempting to exercise treaty power and declaring war on the Union.

Furthermore, Article I, section 8, says that congress has (amongst other things) the power:

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

Since the CSA set aside the constitution, they were an insurrection, therefore the Union was only exercising the power inherent in the constitution.  By denying that the constitution had any power over them (every CSA state did this), they were in open rebellion.

The only way that the CSA could give the least vestige of legality to their proceedings was to keep the U.S. Constitution as it stood after their secession.  Of course there would then be some awkwardness attached to their position of adhering to something that they fled from...

While the word "secession" is not in the constitution, the organization of said constitution makes it illegal to secede - because the federal powers are defined and the supremacy clause makes the constitution supreme to state laws.  Not even the vaunted 9th and 10th amendments deny this.  In fact, the 10th reinforces the notion that enumerated federal powers trump state powers and rights.

Pray tell, how can a state exercise powers that it is specifically prohibited from exercising?  IOW, how could the CSA declare war when the constitution forbade them?  How could the individual states elevate their laws above the constitution (everyone did so)?
811 posted on 06/03/2002 12:55:09 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Where has the Constitution been delegated the power to prohibit secession?

Jefferson Davis said it resided in the Congress' power to provide for the common defense.

Walt

813 posted on 06/03/2002 3:45:00 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Where has the Constitution been delegated the power to prohibit secession? Where is it written that the contract is permanent and unbreakable?

Just like the US Consitution, the Constitution of the CSA does not specifically call out secession (see Article VI, 6) - one of the most sacred rights among the Confederate states. Perhaps they understood what delegating and retaining rights means.

819 posted on 06/03/2002 10:57:59 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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