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Could the South Have Won?
NY Books ^ | June 2002 ed. | James M. McPherson

Posted on 05/23/2002 8:52:25 AM PDT by stainlessbanner


The New York Review of Books
June 13, 2002

Review

Could the South Have Won?

By James M. McPherson

Look Away! A History of the Confederate States of America

by William C. Davis

The South vs. the South: How Anti-Confederate Southerners Shaped the Course of the Civil War

by William W. Freehling

Lee and His Army in Confederate History

by Gary W. Gallagher

The War Hits Home: The Civil War in Southeastern Virginia
by Brian Steel Wills

The field of Civil War history has produced more interpretative disputes than most historical events. Next to debates about the causes of the war, arguments about why the North won, or why the Confederacy lost (the difference in phraseology is significant), have generated some of the most heated but also most enlightening recent scholarship. The titles of four books reveal just some of the central themes of this argument: Why the North Won the Civil War (1960); How the North Won (1983); Why the South Lost the Civil War (1986); Why the Confederacy Lost (1992).

Answers to these why and how questions fall into two general categories: external and internal. Exter-nal interpretations usually phrase the question as Why did the North win? They focus on a comparison of Northern and Southern population, resources, economic capacity, leadership, or strategy, and conclude that Northern superiority in one or more of these explains Union victory. Internal explanations tend to ask, Why did the South lose? They focus mainly or entirely on the Confederacy and argue that internal divisions, dissensions, or inadequacies account for Confederate defeat.

The most durable interpretation is an external one. It was offered by General Robert E. Lee himself in a farewell address to his army after its surrender at Appomattox: "The Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources."[1] This explanation enabled Southern whites to preserve their pride, to reconcile defeat with their sense of honor, even to maintain faith in the nobility of their cause while admitting that it had been lost. The Confederacy, in other words, was compelled to surrender not because its soldiers fought badly, or lacked courage, or suffered from poor leadership, or because its cause was wrong, but simply because the enemy had more men and guns. The South did not lose; Confederates wore themselves out whipping the Yankees and collapsed from glorious exhaustion. This interpretation became the mainstay of what has been called the Myth of the Lost Cause, which has sustained Southern pride in their Confederate forebears to this day. As one Virginian expressed it:

They never whipped us, Sir, unless they were four to one. If we had had anything like a fair chance, or less disparity of numbers, we should have won our cause and established our independence.[2]

In one form or another, this explanation has won support from scholars of Northern as well as Southern birth. In 1960 the historian Richard Current provided a succinct version of it. After reviewing the statistics of the North's "overwhelming numbers and resources" two and a half times the South's population, three times its railroad capacity, nine times its industrial production, and so on Current concluded that "surely, in view of the disparity of resources, it would have taken a miracle...to enable the South to win. As usual, God was on the side of the heaviest battalions."[3]

In 1990 Shelby Foote expressed this thesis in his inimitable fashion. Noting that many aspects of life in the North went on much as usual during the Civil War, Foote told Ken Burns on camera in the PBS documentary The Civil War that "the North fought that war with one hand behind its back." If necessary "the North simply would have brought that other arm out from behind its back. I don't think the South ever had a chance to win that war."[4]


At first glance, Current's and Foote's statements seem plausible. But upon reflection, a good many historians have questioned their explicit assertions that overwhelming numbers and resources made Northern victory inevitable. If that is true, the Confederate leaders who took their people to war in 1861 were guilty of criminal folly or colossal arrogance. They had read the census returns. They knew as much about the North's superiority in men, resources, and economic capacity as any modern historian. Yet they went to war confident of victory. Southern leaders were students of history. They could cite many examples of small nations that won or defended their independence against much more powerful enemies: Switzerland against the Hapsburg Empire; the Netherlands against Spain; Greece against the Ottomans. Their own ancestors had won independence from mighty Britain in 1783. The relative resources of the Confederacy vis-à-vis the Union in 1861 were greater than those of these other successful rebels.

The Confederacy waged a strategically defensive war to protect from conquest territory it already controlled and to preserve its armies from annihilation. To "win" that kind of war, the Confederacy did not need to invade and conquer the North or destroy its army and infrastructure; it needed only to hold out long enough to compel the North to the conclusion that the price of conquering the South and annihilating its armies was too great, as Britain had concluded with respect to the United States in 1781 or, for that matter, as the United States concluded with respect to Vietnam in 1972. Until 1865, cold-eyed military experts in Europe were almost unanimous in their conviction that Union armies could never conquer and subdue the 750,000 square miles of the Confederacy, as large as all of Western Europe. "No war of independence ever terminated unsuccessfully except where the disparity of force was far greater than it is in this case," pronounced the military analyst of the London Times in 1862. "Just as England during the revolution had to give up conquering the colonies so the North will have to give up conquering the South."[5]

Even after losing the war, many ex-Confederates stuck to this belief. General Joseph E. Johnston, one of the highest-ranking Confederate officers, insisted in 1874 that the Southern people had not been "guilty of the high crime of undertaking a war without the means of waging it successfully."[6] A decade later General Pierre G.T. Beauregard, who ranked just below Johnston, made the same point: "No people ever warred for independence with more relative advantages than the Confederates."[7]


If so, why did they lose the war? In thinly veiled terms, Johnston and Beauregard blamed the inept leadership of Jefferson Davis. That harried gentleman responded in kind; as far as he was concerned, the erratic and inadequate generalship of Beauregard and especially Johnston was responsible for Confederate defeat. In the eyes of many contemporaries and historians there was plenty of blame to go around. William C. Davis's Look Away! is the most recent "internal" study of the Confederacy that, by implication at least, attributes Confederate defeat to poor leadership at several levels, both military and civilian, as well as factionalism, dissension, and bickering between men with outsize egos and thin skins. In this version of Confederate history, only Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson remain unstained.

For any believer in the Myth of the Lost Cause, any admirer of heroic Confederate resistance to overwhelming odds, the story told by Davis (no relation to the Confederate president) makes depressing reading. It is a story of conflicts not on the battlefields of Manassas or Shiloh or Gettysburg or Chickamauga or the Wilderness they are here, but offstage, as it were but conflicts between state governors and the Confederate government in Richmond, between quarreling Cabinet officers, between Jefferson Davis and prominent generals or senators or newspaper editors and even his vice-president, Alexander Stephens. Davis chronicles different examples of internal breakdown under the stresses not only of enemy invasion but also of slave defections to the Yankees, of Unionist disloyalty in the upcountry, particularly in such states as Tennessee, of galloping inflation and the inability of an unbalanced agricultural society under siege to control it, of shortages and hunger and a growing bitterness and alienation among large elements of the population.

These problems seemed more than sufficient to ensure Confederate failure, but they were greatly exacerbated by the jealousies and rivalries of Confederate politicians, which remain Davis's principal focus. He does not explicitly address the question of why the Confederacy lost, but his implicit answer lies in the assertion that "the fundamental flaw in too many of the big men of the Confederacy... [was] 'big-man-me-ism.'"

There are, however, two problems with this interpretation. In two senses it is too "internal." First, by concentrating only on the Confederacy it tends to leave the reader with the impression that only the Confederacy suffered from these corrosive rivalries, jealousies, and dissensions. But a history of the North during the Civil War would reveal similar problems, mitigated only by Lincoln's skill in holding together a diverse coalition of Republicans and War Democrats, Yankees and border states, abolitionists and slaveholders which perhaps suggests that Lincoln was the principal reason for Union victory. In any event, Look Away! is also too "internal" because the author is too deeply dependent on his sources. It is the nature of newspaper editorials, private correspondence, congressional debates, partisan speeches, and the like to emphasize conflict, criticism, argument, complaint. It is the squeaky wheel that squeaks. The historian needs to step back and gain some perspective on these sources, to recognize that the well-greased wheel that turns smoothly also turns quietly, leaving less evidence of its existence available to the historian.

Look Away! falls within one tradition of internal explanations for Confederate defeat. More prevalent, especially in recent years, have been studies that emphasize divisions and conflicts of race, class, and even gender in the South. Two fifths of the Confederate population were slaves, and two thirds of the whites did not belong to slaveholding families. What stake did they have in an independent Confederate nation whose original raison d'être was the protection of slavery? Not much stake at all, according to many historians, especially for the slaves and, as the war took an increasing toll on non-slaveholding white families, very little stake for them either. Even among slaveholding families, the women who willingly subscribed to an ethic of sacrifice in the war's early years became disillusioned as the lengthening war robbed them of husbands, sons, lovers, and brothers. Many white women turned against the war and spread this disaffection among their menfolk in the army; in the end, according to Drew Gilpin Faust, "it may well have been because of its women that the South lost the Civil War."[8]


If all this is true if the slaves and some nonslaveholding whites opposed the Confederate war effort from the outset and others including women of slaveholding families eventually turned against it, one need look no further to explain Confederate defeat. In The South vs. the South, however, William W. Freehling does not go this far. He says almost nothing about women as a separate category, and he acknowledges that many nonslaveholding whites had a racial, cultural, and even economic stake in the preservation of slavery and remained loyal Confederates to the end. But he maintains that, properly defined, half of all Southerners opposed the Confederacy and that this fact provides a sufficient explanation for Confederate failure.

Freehling defines the South as all fifteen slave states and Southerners as all people slave as well as free who lived in those states. This distinction between "the South" and the eleven slave states that formed the Confederacy is important but too often disregarded by those who casually conflate the South and the Confederacy. Admittedly, some 90,000 white men from the four Union slave states (Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware) fought for the Confederacy, but this number was offset by a similar number of whites from Confederate states (chiefly Tennessee and the part of Virginia that became West Virginia) who fought for the Union.

But Freehling's central thesis that "white Confederates were only half the Southerners" raises problems. This arithmetic works only if virtually all black Southerners are counted against the Confederacy. At times Freehling seems to argue that they should be so counted. At other times he is more cautious, maintaining that "the vast majority" of Southern blacks "either opposed the rebel cause or cared not whether it lived or died." Freehling does not make clear how important he considers that qualifying "or cared not." In any event, let us assume that all three million slaves who remained in the Confederacy (as well as the one million in the border states and in conquered Confederate regions) sympathized with the Union cause that would bring them freedom. Nevertheless, their unwilling labor as slaves was crucial to the Confederate economy and war effort, just as their unwilling labor and that of their forebears had been crucial to building the antebellum Southern economy. These Confederate slaves worked less efficiently than before the war because so many masters and overseers were absent at the front. Unwilling or not, however, they must be counted on the Confederate side of the equation, which significantly alters Freehling's 50/50 split of pro- and anti-Confederates in the South to something like 75/25.

Freehling draws on previous scholarship to offer a succinct narrative of the political and military course of the war, organized around Lincoln's slow but inexorable steps toward emancipation, "hard war," and the eventual mobilization of 300,000 black laborers and soldiers to work and fight for the Union. This narrative is marred by several errors, including the repeated confusion of General Charles F. Smith with General William F. "Baldy" Smith, the conflation of combat casualties with combat mortality, the mislabeling of a photograph of Confederate trenches at Fredericksburg as Petersburg, and the acceptance at face value of Alexander Stephens's absurd claim, made five years after Lincoln's death, that the Union president had urged him in 1865 to persuade Southern states to ratify the Thirteenth Amendment "prospectively," thereby delaying the abolition of slavery five years. Nevertheless, Freehling has made a strong case for the vital contribution of the two million whites and one million blacks in the South who definitely did support the Union cause. Without them, "the North" could not have prevailed, as Lincoln readily acknowledged.


Freehling does not take a clear stand on the question of whether Union victory was inevitable. At times he seems to imply that it was, because the half of all Southerners whom he claims supported the Union (actively or passively) doomed the Confederacy. But at other times he suggests that this support was contingent on the outcome of military campaigns and political decisions. No such ambiguity characterizes the essays in Gary Gallagher's Lee and His Army in Confederate History. In this book and in his earlier The Confederate War, Gallagher has argued forcefully and convincingly that Confederate nationalism bound most Southern whites together in determined support for the Confederate cause, that the brilliant though costly victories of Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia reinforced this determination, and that morale even in the face of defeat and the destruction of resources in 1864 1865 remained high until almost the end.

Gallagher does not slight the problems of slave defections to the Yankees, class tensions among whites, personal rivalries and jealousies among Confederate leaders, and other internal divisions that have occupied historians who see these problems as preordaining defeat. But he emphasizes the degree of white unity and strength of purpose despite these faultlines. Plenty of evidence exists to support this emphasis. A Union officer who was captured at the Battle of Atlanta on July 22, 1864, and spent the rest of the war in Southern prisons wrote in his diary on October 4 that from what he had seen in the South "the End of the War...is some time hence as the Idea of the Rebs giving up until they are completely subdued is all Moonshine they submit to privatations that would not be believed unless seen."[9]

"Until they are completely subdued." That point came in April 1865, when the large and well-equipped Union armies finally brought the starving, barefoot, and decimated ranks of Confederates to bay. Gallagher revives the overwhelming numbers and resources explanation for Confederate defeat, shorn of its false aura of inevitability. Numbers and resources do not prevail in war without the will and skill to use them. The Northern will wavered several times, most notably in response to Lee's victories in the summer of 1862 and winter spring of 1863 and the success of Lee's resistance to Grant's offensives in the spring and summer of 1864. Yet Union leaders and armies were learning the skills needed to win, and each time the Confederacy seemed on the edge of triumph, Northern victories blunted the Southern momentum: at Sharpsburg, Maryland, and Perryville, Kentucky, in the fall of 1862; at Gettysburg and Vicksburg in July 1863; and at Atlanta and in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley in September 1864. Better than any other historian of the Confederacy, Gallagher understands the importance of these contingent turning points that eventually made it possible for superior numbers and resources to prevail. He understands as well that the Confederate story cannot be written except in counterpoint with the Union story, and that because of the multiple contingencies in these stories, Northern victory was anything but inevitable.


Much of the best scholarship on the Civil War during the past decade has concentrated on the local or regional impact of the war. A fine example is Brian Steel Wills's The War Hits Home, a fascinating account of the home front and battle front in southeastern Virginia, especially the town of Suffolk and its hinterland just inland from Norfolk. No great battles took place here, but there was plenty of skirmishing and raids by combatants on both sides. Confederates controlled this region until May 1862, when they were compelled to pull back their defenses to Richmond. Union forces occupied Suffolk for the next year, staving off a halfhearted Confederate effort to recapture it in the spring of 1863. The Yankees subsequently fell back to a more defensible line nearer Norfolk, leaving the Suffolk region a sort of no man's land subject to raids and plundering by the cavalry of both armies.

Through it all most white inhabitants remained committed Confederates, while many of the slaves who were not removed by their owners to safer territory absconded to the Yankees, adding their weight to the Union side of the scales in the balance of power discussed by Freehling. White men from this region fought in several of Lee's regiments, suffering casualties that left many a household bereft of sons, husbands, fathers. Yet their Confederate loyalties scarcely wavered.

Northern occupation forces at first tried a policy of conciliation, hoping to win the Southern whites back to the Union. When this failed, they moved toward a harsher policy here as they did elsewhere, confiscating the property and liberating the slaves of people they now perceived as enemies to be crushed rather than deluded victims of secession conspirators to be converted.

Wills does not make a big point of it, but his findings stand "in sharp rebuttal" to the arguments of historians who portray a weak or divided white commitment to the Confederate cause as the reason for defeat. "These people sought to secure victory until there was no victory left to win." In the end the North did have greater numbers and resources, wielded with a skill and determination that by 1864 1865 matched the Confederacy's skills and determination; and these explain why the North won the Civil War.

Notes

[1] The Wartime Papers of R.E. Lee, edited by Clifford Dowdey and Louis H. Manarin (Little, Brown, 1961), p. 934.

[2] Quoted in Why the North Won the Civil War, edited by David Donald (Louisiana State University Press, 1960), p. ix.

[3] Richard N. Current, "God and the Strongest Battalions," in Why the North Won the Civil War, p. 22.

[4] "Men at War: An Interview with Shelby Foote," in Geoffrey C. Ward with Ric Burns and Ken Burns, The Civil War (Knopf, 1990), p. 272.

[5] London Times, August 29, 1862.

[6] Joseph E. Johnston, Narrative of Military Operations (Appleton, 1874), p. 421.

[7] Pierre G.T. Beauregard, "The First Battle of Bull Run," in Battles and Leaders of the Civil War, 4 volumes, edited by Robert U. Johnson and Clarence C. Buel (Century, 1887), Vol. 1, p. 222.

[8] Drew Gilpin Faust, "Altars of Sacrifice: Confederate Women and the Narratives of War," The Journal of American History, Vol. 76, No. 4 (March 1990), p. 1228.

[9] "The Civil War Diary of Colonel John Henry Smith," edited by David M. Smith, Iowa Journal of History, Vol. 47 (April 1949), p. 164.



TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: books; dixie; dixielist; jamesmcpherson; mcpherson; research; south
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To: muleboy
As flawed as Davis was, however, his vision of a post-war governing system was far superior to Lincoln's.

Well, Lincoln was in a different situation.

He was trying to preserve the government of Washington and Madison.

Walt

241 posted on 05/24/2002 7:24:55 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: muleboy
We will never know what the post-war Davis would have been like. Given the activities of the war-time Davis, with his disregard of the constitution and of the legislature, why should we expect post war to have been any different?
242 posted on 05/24/2002 7:26:17 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: WhiskeyPapa
You and I had a refreshingly civil exchange on this Fort Pillow thing on another thread. The reason I cite "3-400" is because of the evidence you introduced. The one website that I found cited contemporary sources as saying 400 Union men were murdered after they had surrendered.

I had cited sources that said 200 to 350 Federals died at Fort Pillow, not that that that many were killed after they surrendered. Your figures attribute all deaths to killing after surrender, which seems unreasonable to me. I expect that a large number were killed in the battle itself.

You had pointed out in the other thread that if blacks saw their fellow soldiers being killed after surrender it would explain why the blacks picked up their weapons after surrender and started firing again, as the Confederates reported. Good point. I would have picked up my weapon again too.

243 posted on 05/24/2002 7:48:21 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: stainlessbanner
I learn more about both sides' perspectives on these threads than I do reading any 3 or 4 CW books. Thanks FReepers!
244 posted on 05/24/2002 8:05:56 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: rustbucket
Your figures attribute all deaths to killing after surrender, which seems unreasonable to me. I expect that a large number were killed in the battle itself.

Well, it's all interesting.

The first website I checked had an affiant saying that the CSA force was 5-7,000. I think your source said something like 1,200.

Since there were @ 600 federals, that would mean a 2-1 ratio, obviously. The only way to seize a fort with that ratio would be if the defenders DID run like crazy. And some of the affiants said the blacks fought bravely and some said resistance collapsed right off, and one indicated that the federal forces planned to debunk down to the water covered by the gunboat. Forrest's AAR said he had 20 KIA and 40 WIA. Many of the Union witnesses said the CSA forces were bloodily repulsed twice before they gained entry. There was a lot of disagreement. Don't forget the defenders were USCT and Tennessee Unionists.

Whatever the CSA forces did was excessive and has no parallel on the Union side.

Walt

245 posted on 05/24/2002 8:07:38 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
The victims were non-slave holders and the executioners were slave holders.

Not all of the jury were slave holders.

I'd be a little leery of citing CSA "law" if I were you. Everything the Germans did to the Jews was strictly legal under German law.

It is my understanding that US and Confederate law were similar on this point. How they applied it may have been different. A large number of Confederates were killed as spies by the North. What law did the Federals use to accomplish that?

So please don't try and suggest that the traitors out in Texas were justified in hanging these men, whose only crime was loyalty to Old Glory.

As my post said, I don't think that all of the hung men were guilty only of loyalty to Old Glory. If what you say is true, why were the bulk of the Unionists set free?

no one is putting forth a cult for the Union men of the day

Have you read your own posts?

246 posted on 05/24/2002 8:10:01 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: Colt .45
The 10th Amendment specifically limited the powers of the Federal government.

The people retain rights under the 10th amendment too. And so far, they have maintained the Union.

Walt

247 posted on 05/24/2002 8:12:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Non-Sequitur
But what should we have expected from an army that shot black POWs out of hand as a matter of course; whose government's official policy was to sell black Union POWs into slavery and imprison their officers.

The official policy was that white officers of black troops be executed.

Walt

248 posted on 05/24/2002 8:14:01 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: rustbucket
A large number of Confederates were killed as spies by the North.

How large a number?

I know several CSA agents were hanged in New York city for planning to start massive fires.

I know about Sam Davis being hanged. He was operating as an agent around Nashville. You can see his boots at the Tennessee State Museum.

I know that the main CSA leaders were in the hands of the government -- Davis, Lee, Stephens, others. They were all released.

The loyal Texans were innocent as new borns when compared to the secessionists arrested in Maryland in 1861 for various acts.

Walt

249 posted on 05/24/2002 8:23:41 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: rustbucket
no one is putting forth a cult for the Union men of the day

Have you read your own posts?

I haven't organized any parades lately.

I haven't knowingly expressed anything not well supported in the record.

Some of the CSA apologists willfully distort the record. I don't mean you.

You remember in that one other thread you even called the one on his lies. As I recall, the county name had not been what he swore up and down it was back in 1843 or whatever.

Walt

250 posted on 05/24/2002 8:28:09 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: rustbucket
As my post said, I don't think that all of the hung men were guilty only of loyalty to Old Glory. If what you say is true, why were the bulk of the Unionists set free?

That's a good point.

I know that two Unionists were convicted of whatever and hanged right off. Five more were condemned. About that time a CSA officer was ambushed and killed. I don't think it was established even by whom.

This set off the round of lynching where the 14 were lynched in one day. The mob leaders just arbitrarily said they would have 20 to lynch or they would take action. The authorities did in fact provide 14.

There were several companies of CSA troops in the town. One would think they could handle any mob. It's not as if it were the protypical lone sherrif defending the jail or anything like that.

It all sounds unbelievable. Not the best day for Texas.

Walt

251 posted on 05/24/2002 8:34:45 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
The first website I checked had an affiant saying that the CSA force was 5-7,000. I think your source said something like 1,200.

I cited a National Park Service site that said the number was 2,500. I pointed out that other sites had said 1,500. Other places mentioned that about 1,200 of these stormed the fort. Forrest had sent part of his force to the river to repell Federal reinforcements coming by boat and had deployed sharpshooters on the hill that were having a significant effect on those inside the fort. Those men didn't storm the fort.

Think about the 5,000 to 7,000 number for a second. This would have meant that the Federals were outnumbered 8 or 12 to 1. If you had seen such a enemy force massed on the hill above and you were offered prisoner of war terms by a general known for treating prisoners fairly (I can back that up with Sherman's words), would you have surrendered?

Estimating enemy troop strength is difficult. The Memphis Bulletin newspaper estimated Forrest's force at 4,000 but acknowledged that the Confederate units observers reported as being present didn't add up to that.

Forrest's AAR said he had 20 KIA and 40 WIA. Many of the Union witnesses said the CSA forces were bloodily repulsed twice before they gained entry. There was a lot of disagreement. Don't forget the defenders were USCT and Tennessee Unionists.

In newspaper reports, Federal Sergeant Gaylord estimated the Confederate killed and wounded at 150, saying that he saw about 40 of them in a building used as a hospital. He said there were other buildings he thought were also being used for the same purpose, hence his estimate. The same newspaper reports also say that the Confederates acknowledge 10 killed and 50 wounded. The latter figures are more consistent with Forrest's figures.

252 posted on 05/24/2002 8:38:27 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Ok Walt I got it...dumb ol me.....nobody recognized the CSA formally yet everyone thought they would prevail???? ...OK now I've got it. Thanks.
253 posted on 05/24/2002 9:20:37 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: schu
"Sorry, Truman did the right thing."

You needn't apologize to me for expressing your opinion in the matter. I have no problem living with the fact that others hold an opinion different than mine.

254 posted on 05/24/2002 9:33:07 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: rustbucket
Had Fort Pillow been an isolated incident then it would be easy to explain it as an exaggeration or just one of the tragedies which occasionally happen in war. But it wasn't an isolated incident. From Fort Pillow in Tennessee to Olustee in Florida, from Poison Spring in Arkansas to the Crater outside of Petersburg the record is full of incident after incident of confederate troops shooting black Union troops while they were trying to surrender or after they had surrendered. And their record against white Union Troops from states like Tennessee and North Carolina isn't much better. Forrest's troop also executed white POWs from the Thirteenth West Tennessee Cavalry at Fort Pillow. At Laurel Springs, North Carolina, Confederate soldiers murdered fifteen Unionists ranging in age from thirteen to sixty and in Kinston, North Carolina, George Pickett ordered twenty-two North Carolinians captured in Union uniforms hanged for desertion. I'm not aware of similar activities from the Union side.
255 posted on 05/24/2002 10:01:52 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: WhiskeyPapa
A large number of Confederates were killed as spies by the North.
------------------------
How large a number?

I don't have a number for you. Maybe someone has tabulated it somewhere. It is just that I keep seeing reports in old newspapers of individual captured Confederates killed as spies and/or guerrillas when they were simply at home on leave. Maybe they were spies or guerrillas; maybe not.

The old newspapers are fascinating. For example, they report exchanged Confederate prisoners throwing their food rations back at their Federal captors as they were released.

Some Southern newspapers gave a very rosy picture of the Southern situation in the months before the war ended (e.g., Sherman is "retreating" through Georgia and "Why the South is as far from being subjugated as when the first gun of the war was fired." (December 1864))

They also contain some droll humor. At the risk of getting off subject, I'll include a little of it below in the exact words of the newspaper -- most of these snippets are from court reports.

"There was an 'ole nigger,' whose name was Paul, who made an affidavit that a colored soldier named Sterns had stolen his watch. It occurred in a doctor's shop. The negro Paul had a watch. The soldier Sterns went out of said shop, and the watch went out about the same time. Sterns sleeps tonight in the calaboose. He will be tried in due course."

"The Richmond Whig, of the 17th, says that all it could learn, upon inquiry at the War Department, was that Sherman was somewhere, but it was not known where."

"There is a colored boy Napoleon who is slightly affected by the crime of larceny. It indeed was a fowl affair. He stole seven chickens from a yard and sold four to a colored barber. His case was continued."

"Mary Welch is an Irish woman. Her trials are great. She concluded to alieviate them with potations of whiskey."

"There were two mules, Pete mule and Fanny mule; the latter was inclined to rove, on which Jeff concluded he would do Simon a favor by taking the stray mule home and go in search of the other. Unfortunately, however, he did not bring the mule back, nor has said mule ever been heard of since."

"A few days ago a drummer of the 7th Wisconsin was sent home from Chicago to her ma, because it was discovered that she was not so masculine as the regulations required."

256 posted on 05/24/2002 10:29:16 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: Aurelius, JohnHuang2
You needn't apologize to me for expressing your opinion in the matter. I have no problem living with the fact that others hold an opinion different than mine.

Well done Aurelius!!

My vote for quote of the day

257 posted on 05/24/2002 10:32:55 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
Ok Walt I got it...dumb ol me.....nobody recognized the CSA formally yet everyone thought they would prevail???? ...OK now I've got it. Thanks.

From the article:

Until 1865, cold-eyed military experts in Europe were almost unanimous in their conviction that Union armies could never conquer and subdue the 750,000 square miles of the Confederacy, as large as all of Western Europe. "No war of independence ever terminated unsuccessfully except where the disparity of force was far greater than it is in this case," pronounced the military analyst of the London Times in 1862. "Just as England during the revolution had to give up conquering the colonies so the North will have to give up conquering the South."

Even after losing the war, many ex-Confederates stuck to this belief. General Joseph E. Johnston, one of the highest-ranking Confederate officers, insisted in 1874 that the Southern people had not been "guilty of the high crime of undertaking a war without the means of waging it successfully."

A decade later General Pierre G.T. Beauregard, who ranked just below Johnston, made the same point: "No people ever warred for independence with more relative advantages than the Confederates."

And yet they lost.

Why do you think the so-called CSA was not recognized by any major power?

Walt

258 posted on 05/24/2002 11:49:54 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
See post 257...
259 posted on 05/24/2002 12:09:29 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Non-Sequitur
Your point is well taken, but some of the incidents you report are subjects of contention.

George Pickett ordered twenty-two North Carolinians captured in Union uniforms hanged for desertion.

Twenty seven of the captured Union troops were reportedly deserters from the Confederate Army. They were tried by court-marshal and 22 of them were subsequently hung.

In 1863, the Feds were paying 300 dollars each to poor NC farmers to enlist, a lot of money in those days.

260 posted on 05/24/2002 12:11:44 PM PDT by rustbucket
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