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Abortion and Libertarianism
The Libertarian Enterprise ^ | May 13, 2002 | W. James Antle III

Posted on 05/20/2002 2:51:41 PM PDT by dubyajames

Abortion and Libertarianism: A Conclusion

by W. James Antle III

The abortion debate needn't be an endless rehashing of political minutiae when it can serve as an occasion for reexamining libertarian first principles. It touches on humanity as the basis for individual rights and the prohibition against initiatory violence.

Libertarians reject aggression against other human beings, including lethal violence against the innocent. But some defend the killing of fetuses on the grounds that the fetus is a potential rather than actual human being, a human going to be rather than a human being as William Westmiller would say.

Those making this argument fail to show the biological, genetic or ontological difference between what kind of being the fetus is and what kind of being a newborn is. Certainly birth is a monumental event. But the being that was born is the same being that was in the womb just moments before -- what miraculous change in its fundamental nature takes place simply due to the trip down the birth canal? If the development of the fetus is uninterrupted, it is an essential part of its nature to make this journey. Developmentally, it seems more accurate to say that the fetus is a potential infant in the same sense that an infant is a potential toddler or adolescent. A new being is not formed, but one organism reaches a new stage of development.

Skin cells contain human life. So do gametes. But neither have the potential to become a complete human being on their own. At conception or the simulation thereof that is cloning, a self-contained, distinct physical organism comes into existence that, unless interrupted, will actively develop into the various more mature stages of the life of a member of the human species. Sperm, eggs and somatic cells will not.

One can say that they have fertilized eggs but only became a father upon their children's birth. But the act of fertilizing the eggs was a necessary prerequisite of that person's fatherhood and if any of those specific fertilized eggs had not been allowed to continue developing, the specific children that this father has would not be here today. That clearly shows an individuated being. We were all once fetuses and if we had been killed as fetuses, we would no more be in existence as the individuals we are today than if we had died as infants or teen- agers.

Sapience may be one of the characteristics that makes the human species unique, but it does not define an individual's membership in that species. Humans have the capacity to reason, but even after birth this capacity is not always actualized (infants, the severely disabled, the comatose). Some mock the claim that a fetus has any rights by pointing to the absurd spectacle of fetuses exercising their rights to bear firearms, own businesses or come up with innovative ideas. But it would be equally absurd to imagine an infant doing any of those things, yet few (Peter Singer comes to mind as an exception) would endorse killing infants. Why? Because we know infants are humans and as they continue to develop cognitively, humans have the capacity for all of these things. Humans have inherent worth on the basis of their humanity, which in turn is the basis of all rights -- the intrinsic value that necessitates individual autonomy.

Reason makes human beings different from other animal-organisms, but this does not imply some sort of soul-body duality. We are essentially animal-organisms, we don't inhabit organisms, and we thus come to be when the organism that we are comes to be.

Mr. Westmiller chides abortion opponents for divorcing the birth of new people from the "disgustingly pleasurable sexual act" that creates them. Yet it is his position that actually does that. This sexual act is in fact what produces the being that leaves the womb at birth -- there could be no birth if the being was not already in the womb. It is this sexual act that creates the parental responsibility. The stork does not bring new babies; the sexual choices of free men and women do. We recognize that because of this act parents have an obligation to provide support for their children and not evict them from the crib and let them die. Logically, it is untenable to suggest that no responsibility exists until the being they have brought into existence leaves the birth canal. Nor will it do to suggest this somehow implies that people have no recourse against sexual mistakes. It is simply the case that such recourses must stop short of intentionally causing the death of another human being that came about not by its own will, but by the voluntary actions of its parents.

What about rape? Many pro-choicers hold the confused view that if fetuses are to have any rights, then they must have more rights than other human beings. They can be forgiven for this because many pro- lifers seem to share this illogical notion. If human beings can legitimately be killed in self-defense, fetuses are no different. This case can be made in instances of rape, when the mother did not consent to the act that imposes parental obligations, and it is unassailable in instances when the mother's life is endangered. Where it is not legitimate is in the estimated 98 percent of the more than 1 million abortions that take place annually in the United States which are purely elective.

This misconception also explains the fear of "fetus cops." Simply because a few deranged child-welfare bureaucrats believe that preventing every possible parental activity that may place a child at even the most miniscule risk warrants unprecedented state intervention in every home does not mean the proper libertarian response is to proclaim a parental right to beat, torture and kill children. Similarly, just because regulation of every act by a pregnant woman that might conceivably put some fetus at risk would be undesirable does not mean that there is a right to destroy that fetus for any reason or no reason whatsoever. Reasonable distinctions can also be made between serving as governor of Massachusetts and delivering a crack baby.

A pro-life libertarianism respects the individual from the moment that the specific organism that each of us are comes into existence. Such libertarianism isn't contradictory, for it recognizes the rights of every human being, foremost the right to life. Government cannot "solve" the abortion issue. But libertarians must ask if an abortion right gives license to initiatory violence. If so, libertarians must not abort the basis of their own movement.

W. James Antle III is a freelance writer and former researcher for a political consulting firm. He is a senior writer for Enter Stage Right and staff columnist for several other webzines.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; libertarianism; nhs; prolife
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To: Zon

Instant Ideologuese-to-English translation: "They had the temerity to present I.O.U.s which were only due upon the focal alignment of the Planet Zon, and redeemable only at chartered sovereign banks doing business within the Civilization of the Universe."

Frankly, anyone who would have anything whatsoever to do with this apparent scam deserves to be taken.

141 posted on 05/20/2002 11:40:48 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: Zon
You know, whatever goofy cult you belong to is boring and entirely beside the point. If we're not talking about abortion anymore, how about Calvinism?
142 posted on 05/20/2002 11:43:29 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
What do we get for $10,000 (besides a glib tongue from an ex-convict)?

How dare you question SCROTUM. Just for that your price for the entry into the Universal Muffin is 20,000 galactic credits in old unmarked bills deposited c/o “Church of the Cosmic Muffin” formally Heavens Gate. Po Box 666 Cayman, Islands

143 posted on 05/20/2002 11:48:31 PM PDT by Texasforever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Hi tpaine. I get so busy responding to the jokers that initiate cranking up the "lets trash Neo-Tech" bandwagon that I don't get much of a chance to... well you understand. Thanks.
144 posted on 05/20/2002 11:52:31 PM PDT by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad

This Ward character seems all the more scandalous and criminal with your supposed 'defense' of him. Everyone in prison claims they are innocent. It's an old, tired canard you are playing, only made interesting by your utter zeal for zaniness, O Zon.

You're a real hoot CJ. You can talk the talk but that's all you got, and even then your talk is transparent.

You initially bring up or Neo-Tech, Zon or Zonpower on a thread or jump on the "lets trash Neo-Tech" groupies bandwagon. In your attacks, out of ignorance and a display of immaturity and intolerance you expect me to take seriously what you wrote above. Get real!

Wallace Ward certainly doesn't need me defending him. I'm here to assist you while you expose your true colors. And, more important, for the benefit of other readers so that they may benefit from the juxtaposition. Thanks for contributing.

145 posted on 05/20/2002 11:53:28 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Zon

neo-tech FAQ - Ward Wallace ?


To FedTax-L@SHSU.EDU
From Stan Gabowski <gabw@hotmail.com>
Date Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:27:23 GMT
Reply-To gabw@hotmail.com
Sender owner-fedtax-l@SHSU.edu
Warnings-To <>

"!!++Chief- Parasite- eliminator" sallanngge@bellsouth wrote:
>you have read all the material and are an expert analyist, posting your
>proundty's is like farting in the north wind, if you are4 facing north
 
2. Who is Dr. Frank R. Wallace?

Frank R. Wallace, founder of the Neo-Tech cult, is actually one Wallace
Ward.  He also writes as Dr. Higgs Field and John Flint (JF).

3. Is he really a Dr.?

Yes.  But despite what you might think by his choice of topics, he is
not a
physicist or a medical doctor.  He was once an inorganic chemist at
Dupont
before he went into the far more lucrative field of gambling manuals.

4. Why does he use a pen name?

Two explanations have been offered by those inside the organization:

"They hid behind pen names mostly to make the company appear larger than
it
really is. The company is really really small. But man do they have
egos!
Plus when you come right down to, they lied."
"RE: "Why do they hide behind pseudonyms, anyway?"

"I'm pretty sure it's so they can replace people without exposing the
turn-over. So, while there have been a multitude of customer service
mangers, there is only one Barbie Diamond, who the innocent customer
might
think is an I&O lifer. And of course, the names contain memes; like
there
are really beatuifull blondes covered in diamonds working at
I&O!!!!!!!!!"

5. Who are the real people behind Neo-Tech?

Wallace Ward and his relatives.
Here's some information on them partially based on a message by
mattriv@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net:

                            The Ward Family

* Wallace Ward - creator of Neo-Tech. Writes under the name of Frank R.
Wallace, Dr. Higgs Field, John Flint, and others.  Estimated age: early
60s.
Posts to the net as think999@netcom.com.

* Rosa Maria Meono - Wallace Ward's wife.  She claimed to be a witch.
Estimated age: 60.
May be posting to the net as jungleb9@aol.com and rosim7@aol.com, though
her messages bear a striking resemblence to those written by her
husband.

* Ruth Ward - daughter of Wallace Ward by Helen Savage.  Estimated age:
40.

* Wallace H. Ward - son of Wallace Ward by Helen Savage. a.k.a. Mark
Hamilton.  Formerly married to T.J. (Terry), who left him.  Estimated
Age:
35.
In a recent press release, he states that he is the actual owner of
Neo-Tech Publishing:

"My name is Wallace H. Ward, and I own Neo-Tech Publishing
Company.  My father, Wallace Ward (a.k.a. Dr. Frank R. Wallace)
wrote the Neo-Tech Discovery and founded I & O Publishing
Company in 1968."

* Frank S. Ward - son of Wallace Ward by Helen Savage. a.k.a. Eric
Savage.
Posts to the net as market@chinadirect.com AKA 'J. Hampton'  Estimated
age:
31.

* Steve Rapella - adopted son of Wallace Ward. Romantic Love Partner of
Ruth Ward (last I heard). a.k.a. John Alberts. Estimated Age: 40.

* Gary Twichell - Wallace Ward's right hand man. Smithers to Ward's Mr.
Burns. Not related to the Ward family, Gary was recruited through the NT
literature. Claims to have created KOAH. (see questions 22 & 23) AKA
Drew
Ellis AKA Kenneth Clark.

6. What is I & O Publishing Company?

Wallace Ward's original publishing business.  I & O stands for
'Individualism and Objectivism.'  Originally set up to sell Ward's first
book 'Poker, A Guaranteed Income for Life by Using the Advanced Concepts
of
Poker', it was shut down in 1991 when Neo-Tech Publishing was formed to
continue the work of selling Neo-Tech to the world.

7. What are the Neo-Tech publications?

The following books are listed in the 'official' bibliography on the web
site.  Other than the mysterious 'Poker Odds' book by Frank Wallace it
was
complete when it was created, at least so far as I've been able to
determine.
They put it up as a GIF of a chart which is poorly scanned and laid out.
I have added a few items that weren't on the chart which have been
announced since I transcribed it.
Note that there have been many editions of some of the books listed
incorporating many revisions, some quite substantive, so your copy of
'The
Neo-Tech Discovery' may not be the same as someone else's brand new
copy.
I have tried to preserve the order of the chart, as well as including
the
full names and psuedonyms of the authors:

 * The Advanced concepts of Poker
   Frank R. Wallace - 1968 - (out of print)
 * Man's Choice/Eric Flame
   Frank R. Wallace - 1970/1972
 * Neo-Tech Reference Encyclopedia
   Frank R. Wallace - 1976
 * Neocheating
   Frank R. Wallace, Mark Hamilton and W. Swann - 1979
 * The Neo-Tech Discovery
   Frank R. Wallace - 1981/1986/1994
 * The Neo-Tech Protection Kit
   Frank R. Wallace et al - 1988/1994
 * Zonpower Discovery
   Higgs Field, Editor - 1992 (out of print)
 * Neo-Tech Cosmic Business Control
   Mark Hamilton - 1989
 * Cassandra's Secret
   Higgs Field, Editor - 1993
   (as Neo-Tech proudly proclaims 'Written in Prison')
 * Neo-Tech Global Business Control
   Eric Savage - 1992
 * Zon 2000
   The Golden Helmet
   Higgs Field, Editor - 1995 - on web site
 * Will America Go Neo-Tech
   Mark Hamilton - 11/3/95
 * ZonPower
   Higgs Field, Editor - 1995 - on web site
   ('The Full Matrix' says the chart - whatever that means)
 * Get Rich by 2001
   Mark Hamilton - 1996 - on web site
Forthcoming:
 * The Zon Protocols - 1996
   (will be published in 'Cyberspace' - that is, to the Neo-Tech web
page)
 * Flame-War Justice - 1997 (was this ever published? - PoaH)

I have also seen a book entitled "Poker Odds" by Frank Wallace mentioned
in
rec.gambling.poker:

"Does anyone know of a reference that contains the probabilities for a
wide
variety of situations for draw, stud, and holdem?  So far the best I
have
been able to find is "Poker Odds" by Frank Wallace."

 - Subject: Probabilities in draw, stud, and holdem
   From: hein hundal <hundal@math.psu.edu>
   Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker
   Date: 1995/08/29
   MessageID: 42096e$11n8@hearst.cac.psu.edu

8. How much does this stuff cost?

Here the one price list I have.  More information on other products is
always welcome.

_NeoTech_Product_           _code_      _US$Price_

Cosmic Power (Pincer One)   P1M         US$65.00
Cosmic Business Control     X0M         US$99.95
          (Pincer Two)
A Future of Wealth Belongs  43M         US$29.95
    to You!
Neo-Tech Job Power          60M         US$99.95
Rapid Power and Wealth      B0M         US$39.95
Kick-Start Report           44M         US$29.95
The Ultimate Battle Tapes   Q0M         US$99.95
Consultation Packages       G1M         US$99.95
How to Start a Global       46M         US$29.95
    Business
Hot Tips                    42M         US$49.95
Anatomy of Love CD          5CM         US$19.95
Anatomy of Love Cassette    5TM         US$19.95
Happiness Forever           90M         US$24.95
Neo-Tech Reference          D0M         US$59.95
    Encyclopedia
Neo-Tech Treatment          70M         US$30.00
    for Alcoholism
Neo-Tech Pleasures          Y0M         US$17.50
The Complete Neo-Tech       07M         US$95.00
    Library

Recently Tony Guzman provided this update to the above list:

>_NeoTech_Product_           _code_      _US$Price_
>
>Cosmic Power (Pincer One)   P1M         US$65.00
**most recent price I've received:.......US$89.95
  (out of print)

(snip)
>A Future of Wealth Belongs  43M         US$29.95
>    to You!
**most recent price I've received:.......US$20.00
  (out of print)

>Neo-Tech Job Power          60M         US$99.95
**(out of print)

>Rapid Power and Wealth      B0M         US$39.95
**(out of print)

>Kick-Start Report           44M         US$29.95
**most recent price I've received:.......US$20.00
  (out of print)

>The Ultimate Battle Tapes   Q0M         US$99.95
**(out of print)

(snip)
>Hot Tips                    42M         US$49.95
**(out of print)

(snip)
>Neo-Tech Treatment          70M         US$30.00
>    for Alcoholism
**most recent price I've received:.......US$19.95

>Neo-Tech Pleasures          Y0M         US$17.50
**most recent price I've received:.......US$19.95

(snip)
These prices are supposedly for NT Discovery
owners.  Non-NT owners are charged a higher
price. (snip)

 - From: guzmanx@ix.netcom.com(TonyGuzman)
   Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.neo-tech
   Subject: Re: Where's the products!!
   Date: 28 Jun 1996 14:56:18 GMT
   Message-ID: <4r0rqi$j70@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>

9. Did Wallace Ward (Frank R. Wallace) really spend time in jail?

Yes.

10. What was he doing time for?

The story began in 1986.  According to an ex-employee of I&O publishing:

"I took me a while after going to work for I&O before I got to the REAL
explanation of the 1986 raid on I&O.

"Wallace Ward/Zon's girlfriend got mad at him and ratted him out. She
called up the IRS and and told them that Zon wasn't paying his taxes,
and
had a bunch of cash and gold stashed away in his home. The IRS showed up
in
their usual friendly style, and scarfed up the assets. And I believe
that
the girlfriend got a cut, since the IRS rewards informers. Since then,
the
incident has become 'fully integrated.'

"Years later, Ward put up a series of billboards (typeset by BMXerToo)
across the street from the Federal Building in Las Vegas. The IRS got
pissed off, and hauled him in. Needless to say, the IRS would respond in
exactly the same way for anyone who pulled such stunts."

 - From: mattriv@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net
   Newsgroups: alt.neo-tech
   Subject: 1986 Raid on I&O Publishing Co.
   Date: 23 Aug 1995 00:50:49 GMT
   Organization: Internet Providers of Florida

11. Is Wallace Ward crazy?

Never met him myself.  But here's something to ponder:

In article <3nn44d$23h@mirage.skypoint.com>,
Earl Baker <duncan@skypoint.com> wrote:

"I know one of Wallace's nieces; she said he lives in Las Vegas.  They
refer to him as "Wally" and she said he believes in 'romantic love'.
Also he worked as a chemist at Dupont for many years.  The
family considers him crazy but generally harmless; and so do I."

12. Is Neo-Tech/ZonPower a cult?

Here are some testimonials by those who used to work for the Neo-Tech
organization, I&O publishing:

"But, upon gaining employment with these folks, I came to realize that
nepotism rules. If you are not a family member your chances of making
the
big bucks they claim to offer is remote if not impossible. Long hours
and
meager salaries are the norm for non-family members. Working for these
people was interesting and even fun for a while. The whole idea of
"saving
the world" is an appealing one. And to think that _you_ are a part of it
is
even more seductive. But unfortunately after a while the constant
brow-beatings, the promises made but never kept, and the rampant
nepotism
begins to make the whole experience akin to a strained bowel movement.
The
whole organization would better serve the public at large if they
weren't
so blatantly condescending. They strut around acting as if they have
been
given secret information from advanced alien beings. It really is a
bore."

 - From: bmxertoo@aol.com
   Newsgroups: alt.neo-tech
   Subject: Ex-Neo-Techer Speaks
   Date: 17 Aug 1995 19:33:58 -0400

"The event that finally revealed to me the actual nature of these people
was when they didn't keep their word. A $10,000 bonus was offered to all
"core member" if certain business goals were met. When the principal of
the
company declared the goal achieved the bonuses were disbursed to all
"core
members" excluding myself. It was deemed I was too immature. That pretty
much told me exactly what these folks think about their employees. They
even had the nerve to ask one employee to return his bonus after they
had
given it him!

"Unless you have been employed by these happy people, you can never
fully
understand the outrageous hipocrisy that pervades everything they do.
Mistakes made by the principals of the company were simply laughed off.
Mistakes made by employees were dealt with in the most severe manner.
Many
times I was fined a significant amount of money for misspellingg a
word."

 - From: bmxertoo@aol.com
   Newsgroups: alt.neo-tech
   Subject: Re: Ex-Neo-Techer Speaks
   Date: 17 Aug 1995 23:00:29 -0400

"I began questioning my involvement in the company directly following
the
infamous monthly meeting where a bust of Christ was smashed to pieces
with
a sledge hammer by JF. The statue rested on the table surrounded by live
microphones. I was recording the meeting and wore headphones, not
knowing
what was about to occur. Hours later, after regaining my hearing I was
accused of doing speedballs and other drugs. I was temporarily fired and
then re-hired a week later. (Matt referred earlier to this incident as
the
Great I&O Purge of 1988.) After this incident, the common question
running
throughout the company (outside the family) was "Is this a cult?""

 -'Rocket Rod', posted to the net by
   From: bmxertoo@aol.com
   Newsgroups: alt.neo-tech
   Subject: Re: Ex-Neo-Techer Speaks
   Date: 25 Aug 1995 20:45:35 -0400


Source: http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/fedtax-l/msg02738.html

What a waste of a life for him, and a bore for us to sit and read about these losers for even a few minutes.

146 posted on 05/20/2002 11:56:55 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Goldhammer

Double? What was wrong with his first Ph.D in physics that he needed to get another one? What are the names of the institution(s) that granted him his two Ph.Ds in physics? What are the titles of his dissertations?

You are the most ignorant, arrogant person I have read on this forum. You chastise a man for seeking goals and achieving them. About the two PhDs, I was mistaken, he has one PhD in physics and one in chemistry. He went to college in Iowa. Don't remember the name off hand. All that information is on the www.neo-tech.com Web site that you so ignorantly get your jollies trashing but fail to take the initiative to read or do your own research.

Are you going to acknowledge that it was wrong of you to intentionally omit key context in you post #105. See here: #109. I guess not since you would have done it your post that I'm now responding to.

As if you expect me to just gloss over your attacks and context-dropping dishonesties and cater to your questions. Get real! Talk about delusional.

147 posted on 05/21/2002 12:15:27 AM PDT by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
"In 1973, this Court struck down an Act of the Texas Legislature that had been in effect since 1857, thereby rendering unconstitutional abortion statutes in dozens of States. Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 119. As some of my colleagues on the Court, past and present, ably demonstrated, that decision was grievously wrong." -- Clarence Thomas
148 posted on 05/21/2002 12:16:36 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Cultural Jihad
"If the state takes away a womans right to have an abortion, they have in affect taken over ownership of her body. But no human-being can morally own another and such forced ownership is slavery."

http://www.neometro.net/Expressions/Writings/Abortion_and_Self-Defence.htm

Another pro-abort cult.

149 posted on 05/21/2002 12:25:28 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Zon

Sheesh. At $95.00 per pamphlet, I'll be broke trying to understand why so many people are so pissed off at the fakir. Some of these screeds say on the covers:

Zonpower
lets you become
GOD
even without a computer

And here:

Z O N P O W E R
from
Cyberspace
Higgs Field, Ph.D.
Editor
guarantees
Riches
Romantic Love
and a god-like
Mind and Body

Pathetic New Age nonsense.

150 posted on 05/21/2002 12:27:30 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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Comment #151 Removed by Moderator

To: Goldhammer

You should read Ward's book more carefully. Mine is a direct quote of an entire paragraph from
3. Practicing Deceit (43)

3. Practicing Deceit (43)

Only in poker can a man lie and practice any form of deceit, except cheating, and still remain a gentleman ... and an honest person. The good player makes extensive use of his right to deceive. He conceals facts and lies about anything that offers him an advantage.

I went to the Web site and read the quote. If you read the book instead of plucking quotes while omitting the larger context you would see that the author explains the wide acceptance of the bluff in poker and the deceptive, lying tactics that are often integral to the bluff.

As I said the bluff: Poker player John tells opponent Bob he's holding two pair when he holds only an ace high. That's deceit, deception and lying. It is also an acceptable and expected aspect of the game of poker that all players agree is acceptable. Cheating, on the other hand is not permitted and cheaters have been injured or worse when caught cheating.

What? ...You have so abandoned common sense and logic that you can't understand the agreed upon and accepted tactics of the bluff? And that you need a direct quote from a source to verify the validity of the bluff tactics You are more lost than I thought..

Your premise is akin or analogous to exPresident Clinton saying that he didn't have sexual relations with that woman. He had sex with Monica but not sexual relations. Lying and deception are prohibited everywhere except in poker. But the simple mental dexterity or agility that it takes to comprehend the analogy is probably way over your head. It's fascinating analogy as the fabric of the metaphors works on multiple levels.

152 posted on 05/21/2002 12:33:43 AM PDT by Zon
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Comment #153 Removed by Moderator

To: Texasforever
Are you drunk or way past drunk?
154 posted on 05/21/2002 12:35:13 AM PDT by Zon
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To: Zon
So are you related to the scammer? Employed by him? Did you eagerly shell out a small fortune reading his science fiction books? How much would you estimate you have spent on this Zonpower nonsense? What would a Zonmaster say about the fanaticism of one who invested so heavily in a lie? Does the lie then own him? Is he ever free when his mind is always enslaved by a lie? What does your family say when you proselytize Zonpower to them?
155 posted on 05/21/2002 12:37:55 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Zon
Are you drunk or way past drunk?

Not yet, I know because you are still not making sense to me. I am not sure I can achieve that state of drunkenness or not and remain conscience. I will try though. Maybe I will "convert" after a case or two.

156 posted on 05/21/2002 12:40:10 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Goldhammer

It has not yet been established that Wallace Ward has two Ph.Ds in physics. So your question is somewhat premature.

Go to the www.neo-tech.com web site and search on Dr.Edu. and you should find some interesting information. You can try as hard as you like to discredit Dr. Ward but you'll fail.

You have demonstrated that you are not to be trusted or worthy of honest discussion.

You have no all-time best sellers or comparative achievements of your own to talk about so you attack and trash those that do. The Zonpower Physics and Zonpower book are rich and deep metaphorically and a person can learn a great deal from careful reading of them. But that person has to want to honestly learn. Something which you have shown to be heading in the opposite direction.

157 posted on 05/21/2002 12:46:34 AM PDT by Zon
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To: Zon
Very real. Yeah right and you are so well read on Neo-Tech/Zonpower that you would know the difference? Obviously not. How's you're garden of ignorance doing, any new sprouts or blooms able to grow in that much darkness void of illumination.

So what kind of sneakers does Wally prefer his zombies to wear, Nike or Reebok?

158 posted on 05/21/2002 12:52:41 AM PDT by Black Powder
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To: Goldhammer
For more info on the criminal see:

http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/fedtax-l/msg02738.html

159 posted on 05/21/2002 12:54:03 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Black Powder
So what kind of sneakers does Wally prefer his zombies to wear, Nike or Reebok?

Formal or informal ritual suicides?

160 posted on 05/21/2002 12:55:18 AM PDT by Texasforever
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