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Denver Judge Axes the Constitution - Update of Rick Stanley's 2A/Civil Disobedience Trial
The Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 Colorado Campaign - News Release ^ | May 15, 2002 | Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 - Colorado

Posted on 05/16/2002 3:05:12 AM PDT by LibertyRocks

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To: sleavelessinseattle
That jury pool of 18 had to be rigged! The State knew how important this case was and that jury pool was by invitation only! That's my conspiratorial take!

It's like I've been saying -- it's all over! The Constitution is dead! Freedom is dead! And I hope you people who criticize Rick Stanley for asserting his Rights enjoy the police state you support!

241 posted on 05/16/2002 1:28:20 PM PDT by BillofRights
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To: Roscoe
Guilty people have to expect that.

He's not guilty. You can't be guilty of violating a law which prohibits acts expressly protected by state & federal Constitutions. Lower laws do not trump higher ones.

242 posted on 05/16/2002 1:28:47 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: sinkspur

This is the most convoluted bunch of nonsense I've read all day. Lying as self-defense, in a courtroom? HAH!

I explained the reasoning. It amounts to if you railroad me I owe you no respect. In this case if a judge abuses a defendant by seating a biased jury the judge deserve no respect and lying may constitute the best self-defense against the judges initiation of force.

You're not impartial if you think the law is unconstitutional.

Who decides what is impartial? A Bible?...The Koran?...The Constitution?

Amendment VI of the Bill Of Rights uses the impartial jury wording to mean that juries will not be compelled to side with the STATE. For more than one-hundred years judges routinely upheld the Sixth Amendment as it was meant. Since 1893 judges have regarded that wording with contempt and have foisted biased jurries on defendants since.

Your intention is to agree with the STATE and judges and invert 180-degrees the 'impartial jury' wording to mean that it is wrong for a citizen/juror to side with the defendant instead of the law.

What will you invert next? That "the people" wording of Amendment II of the Bill Of Rights means the people as a whole/collective or just a STATE militia may keep and bear arms. And that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to an individual ...And does not mean individuals right to keep and bare arms may not be infringed but rather, that the States "right" or militia rights or or the people-collective rights cannot be infringed but the individual's right can be infringed.

243 posted on 05/16/2002 1:28:59 PM PDT by Zon
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To: ctdonath2
You're wasting time. He doesn't believe in the individual right to bear arms. I told him I wasn't interested in cherrypicked Supreme Court rulings (and cited the Dred Scott decision as an example why), and he responded by quoting me yet another cherrypicked Supreme Court ruling.
244 posted on 05/16/2002 1:29:08 PM PDT by jpl
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To: christine11
...their constitutional rights...

Wrong.

245 posted on 05/16/2002 1:29:40 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
The guilty verdict was in quickly

So it was with O. J., too -- but thanks for not making a point!

246 posted on 05/16/2002 1:30:05 PM PDT by BillofRights
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To: jpl
...cherrypicked Supreme Court rulings...

Find even one exception.

247 posted on 05/16/2002 1:31:02 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: BillofRights
[The guilty verdict was in quickly]

So it was with O. J., too

That was a "not guilty' verdict.

248 posted on 05/16/2002 1:33:00 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
"The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress." -- US Supreme Court, U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875), Presser v. State of Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886) Sound familiar?

Sorry, that's trumped by

14th Amendment Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
If the question remains, we look to Emerson and Haney, which are both pending before SCOTUS.
249 posted on 05/16/2002 1:33:49 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: sinkspur

I probably did say similar of you. It's not because you disagree with me that you are deficient in moral integrity and honesty -- you did that all on your own. Perhaps if you didn't post your thoughts you wouldn't be exposing those deficiencies.

Your moral arrogance knows no bounds. Perhaps if you'd just ignore my posts, we'd both be happier.

I'm plenty happy and I can see that you are having a hard time of it. Basically I've ignored your posts for four years. But today you chose to set yourself up as an example and I took the bait.

250 posted on 05/16/2002 1:34:25 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Zon
Your intention is to agree with the STATE and judges and invert 180-degrees the 'impartial jury' wording to mean that it is wrong for a citizen/juror to side with the defendant instead of the law.

On the contrary, it is your intention to agree with the defendant and to invert the "impartial jury" wording to mean that a juror MUST side with the defendant instead of the law.

251 posted on 05/16/2002 1:34:33 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Roscoe
you disgust me! apparently, you believe that everything supercedes the U.S. CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS!!!
252 posted on 05/16/2002 1:34:36 PM PDT by christine
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To: Roscoe
John Lee Haney was convicted of possessing two machineguns in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o).

...and the case is now pending before SCOTUS.

253 posted on 05/16/2002 1:34:55 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: BillofRights
The State knew how important this case was and that jury pool was by invitation only!

How many jury pools are open to people randomly walking in off of the street?

254 posted on 05/16/2002 1:35:20 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: ctdonath2
And is 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) a state law?
255 posted on 05/16/2002 1:36:01 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Zon
I can see that you are having a hard time of it.

I'm having fun watching you paint yourself into a corner as an anarchist.

256 posted on 05/16/2002 1:36:19 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: jpl
He doesn't believe in the individual right to bear arms.

That's precisely why the Founding Fathers penned the 2nd Amendment. Molon Labe.

257 posted on 05/16/2002 1:36:33 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: ctdonath2
Sorry, that's trumped by

Wrong again.

"The relevant historical materials have been canvassed by this Court and by legal scholars. These materials demonstrate conclusively that Congress and the members of the legislatures of the ratifying States did not contemplate that the Fourteenth Amendment was a short-hand incorporation of the first eight amendments making them applicable as explicit restrictions upon the States." -- U.S. Supreme Court BARTKUS v. ILLINOIS, 359 U.S. 121 (1959)

258 posted on 05/16/2002 1:38:48 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
And is 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) a state law?

Obviously not. Relevance? Especially since the 14th Amendment subjugates state law to federal rights?

If Haney is vindicated by SCOTUS overturning 922(o), then by the 14th Amendment, Stanley's conviction will be overturned.

259 posted on 05/16/2002 1:39:31 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Roscoe
You cite Cruikshank and Presser: at least you know what to cite.

But are you telling us that Cruikshank and Presser vs. Illinois would stand up for five minutes under reconsideration by SCOTUS today?

The Cruikshank case was an exercise in squid ink (yes, I've read it) that exonerated a group of Klansmen in Louisiana who were arrested while going abroad to beat and kill black voters, to dissuade them from voting. Brought up under the Klan Act, they were convicted of conspiring to violate the rights of several persons. The SC turned them loose on the theory that the black voters of Louisiana were required to look to the State of Louisiana as the palladium of their federal rights. That opinion wouldn't last five seconds today, and yet its subsidiarity argument underpinned Presser, which relied on it when it blessed Illinois's restriction of the Illinois Militia (State Guard, actually) to a roster of 8500 picked men -- who, under the Presser theory, alone were guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms, among all the inhabitants of the State by the Second Amendment.

Try forming a little tree house in your own state and restricting Fourth Amendment rights to tree-house club members, and see what Justice Scalia says about that arrangement.

Presser, Cruikshank, and Miller are all overripe fruit ready to be pulled from the tree and tossed to the pigs. And that's why Alan Dershowitz advised his liberal friends to make sure no Second Amendment case reaches the Supreme Court.

Looks like they're screwed now. Stanley could still be in jail a long time, but he'll be vindicated eventually.

260 posted on 05/16/2002 1:40:05 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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