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Denver Judge Axes the Constitution - Update of Rick Stanley's 2A/Civil Disobedience Trial
The Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 Colorado Campaign - News Release ^ | May 15, 2002 | Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 - Colorado

Posted on 05/16/2002 3:05:12 AM PDT by LibertyRocks

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To: Squantos, supercat
Is there any Little-Gators here at FR (or anywhere else) that can explain this Judges (legal & constitutional) basis for his instruction to not mention the constitution ?

IANAL, but in today's Star Chambers, it seems the Judge gets to control what "law" gets mentioned to the jury as "pertinent." That's why it became "illegal" long ago to inform the jury of their right to ignore the instructions of the judge and nullify. The Constitutions of the State and the USA are "law" and therefore would fall under the rubric of what can or can't be mentioned.

141 posted on 05/16/2002 10:56:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Alan Chapman

Politicians have a vested intrerest in the proliferation of violence and pandemonium because it gives them the justification they need to further expand government.

To further this line of thinking... of natural law, common law, common sense...

During Clinton's eight years as President 25,000 laws and regulations were created. That's three-thousand laws a year. Politicians, bureaucrats, mainstream media and much of academia would have us believe that we didn't need this years newly created 3,000 laws last year. Nor did we need those new laws the year before that or the year before, etc.

Likewise, the 3,000 newly created laws in 2003 won't be needed until that year. ...And the 3,000 new laws created in 2004? What about them? They'd have us believe that we can live without those laws for a couple of more years but we will need them come 2004.

Oh, and /BTW, we will always need those laws and this is proven by the fact that for every 3,000 newly created laws maybe a dozen old laws get repealed.

My question is, how did people and society ever manage to survive and prosper for 200 years without all those laws but somehow when it comes time to write 3,000 new laws each year we can't live without them.

142 posted on 05/16/2002 11:05:30 AM PDT by Zon
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To: Spiff

Um... I don't think anyone, even Sinkspur himself, has ever doubted that Sinkspur was a statist.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Thanks. I needed that.

143 posted on 05/16/2002 11:06:53 AM PDT by Zon
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To: sinkspur
Heil the State, Stinkspur. Suppose it became a capital crime to have the name Jones. Would you still not nullify? Would you still put your trust in the Almighty Appellate System with a system that far gone?
144 posted on 05/16/2002 11:07:21 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: LibertyRocks
"If Stanley imagines he could talk the way he does in a police state, he's even more ignorant than he sounds. We extend our sympathies to the Libertarian Party." -- Rocky Mountain News, Wednesday, May 8, 2002.

145 posted on 05/16/2002 11:09:51 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: LibertyRocks
Unbelievable!!!

What's really unbelievable is this ridiculous press release, which stands as further proof of Mr. Stanley's utter lack of qualification for the office of U.S. Senator.

Just a couple of examples:

Judge Patterson's next move was to order everyone except the defendant and the officers of the court out of the room.... After a few more minutes a compromise was reached and everyone except Mr. Stanley, his lawyer, and the court officials left the courtroom.

IOW, the "compromise" was that the Judge's ruling would stand: the same people would stay in the room as before, since "his lawyer" could not have been sent out in the first place.

And how about this: As observers left the court room they were met by a posse of armed guards from the Sheriff's department who ordered them to move away from the doorway.

Gasp! Armed Sheriff's deputies?!? Shocking. And those statist thugs were moving them "away from the doorway" -- as though to maintain peace and quiet in the courtroom? (A reasonable move, in light the later outburst of one Mr. Joe Johnson.) Shameful!

As to the use of Constitutional arguments in this case concerning violations of Denver Municipal Ordinance 38-117.5(b), the judge is correct. The task facing this county court is to try Stanley on allegations that he violated an existing ordinance. If Stanley wishes to appeal his conviction (if any), or to challenge the consititutionality of the ordinance a different court, he's got a right to do so. The Constitutionality of the ordinance itself is irrelevant to whether Stanley violated it. Nor is it in the jurisdiction of a county criminal court to rule on Constitutional issues.

But, as is typical of Libertarians, Stanley has picked the wrong battle, in the wrong location.

Wake me up if the LP ever becomes a serious player. Up to now, they're just standing around in noble poses.

146 posted on 05/16/2002 11:13:16 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Alan Chapman
Because the state says it's alright to seize somebody's property without due process does not make it right or just.

Eminent domain? You don't LIKE certain laws; I don't LIKE certain laws. Overturning them in the jury box is quite another matter.

147 posted on 05/16/2002 11:13:40 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Suppose it became a capital crime to have the name Jones.

Suppose monkeys could fly. Would that mean we wouldn't see you here as much?

148 posted on 05/16/2002 11:17:15 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Spiff; Zon; va advogado; roscoe
Zon said:

That's it?!
You have made the clear implication that you are void of honesty and integrity in the jurors box and would vote to send a person to prison not because they violated any person's rights or property but because they broke a political agenda law. You stand up for the law/State no matter what. Thanks for making your stance abundantly clear.

Um... I don't think anyone, even Sinkspur himself, has ever doubted that Sinkspur was a statist.

Nope, -- I have heard Sinkspur scream to high heaven at being called a 'statist'. He, and his supporters on this thread richly deserve that label.

BTW, -- Zon, -- WELL DONE.

149 posted on 05/16/2002 11:17:21 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: sinkspur
Uh, no. Are we now operating under British law?

Well, Arlen Specter has already tarnished the use of Scottish Law.

150 posted on 05/16/2002 11:18:13 AM PDT by r9etb
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Comment #151 Removed by Moderator

Comment #152 Removed by Moderator

To: sinkspur
Suppose monkeys could fly.

Or suppose Stanley was elected.

153 posted on 05/16/2002 11:20:56 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Indeed.......well said !

Stay Safe and keep us posted if you will.

154 posted on 05/16/2002 11:22:40 AM PDT by Squantos
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To: Zon
You have made the clear implication that you are void of honesty and integrity in the jurors box and would vote to send a person to prison not because they violated any person's rights or property but because they broke a political agenda law.

No. I understand what the terms of my jury service require. If I believed that a particular law was unjust, I would make certain that the court, the plaintiff and defendant knew that during jury qualification, which would probably eliminate me from service.

That's moral integrity. THAT'S honesty. I wouldn't hide or lie, like you apparently would, in an effort to get on a jury so I could wave my libertarianism around to make a political statement in acquitting a defendant.

155 posted on 05/16/2002 11:23:30 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: steve-b
That's what I would have said ten years ago about Clowntoon.

Touche'

156 posted on 05/16/2002 11:24:26 AM PDT by strela
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To: Alan Chapman
You simply lack the moral integrity to give an honest answer because it would reveal hypocrisy on your part.

No. I would make certain to inform an Alabama court that I believed Jim Crow laws to be unjust. That would, most likely, disqualify me from jury service.

157 posted on 05/16/2002 11:25:47 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: strela
Touche'

Touché.

158 posted on 05/16/2002 11:27:21 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: sinkspur
The shenanigans of the rural, deep south courtrooms of the 40s and 50s were as wrong and immoral back then as are the shenanigans of some of the liberal municipal courtrooms today.
159 posted on 05/16/2002 11:32:06 AM PDT by jpl
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator


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