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To: Sabertooth
Actually, it's in a large part do to the outrage against his proposal that Bush's Section 245(i) Amnesty got killed in the Senate and had the net effect of zero that you mention.

So you got your way. What exactly is better now. Were the alien workers sent back? Or are they still here? If they're still here, what was all the fuss over?

You understand that the "zero effect" wasn't what Bush wanted, don't you?

So if his proposal would've passed, how would things be worse now in your eyes. It seems to me that the proposals defeat has had 0 effect on the alien worker problem. I mean, you got your way, so things must be going the way you want, eh?

BTW, your first comment "So if Bush hadn't proposed that alien workers be legalized, they would all be in their former country by now?" sort of deliberately and disingenuously misses the point...

My point is that there was a lot of fuss over what amounts to paperwork. I see no big numbers of alien workers going home, nor are they going to go home. No government is going to create an exodus situation. The Hebrews had manna from heaven, and a fire by night, a cloud by day. Are we going to take a chance that millions of aliens forced back over the border at gunpoint are going to get those gifts? :^) What's your answer? Lincoln tried it with the freed slaves, they couldn't adjust. A large number of people used to life in one country can't suddenly pick up in another country. What exactly were you complaing so hard about?

The purpose of stopping Bush's Section 245(i) mini-Amnesty wasn't that the Illegals would then leave, it was to uphold the law, our sovereignty, and to prevent more foreigners from being encouraged to become the next wave of Illegals.

So it was just paperwork. It meant that much to you. Illegals have never been encouraged to come and they keep coming so your argument doesn't have basis in reality.

Stopping Bush on this was a small battle in the war against Illegals.

A battle won by the libs. It will help libs get elected, and there will be more open borders.

109 posted on 05/13/2002 6:41:24 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
Damned internet provider won't stay up.
110 posted on 05/13/2002 6:42:12 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
"Illegals have never been encouraged to come and they keep coming so your argument doesn't have basis in reality."

Well, let me see. If the President of a prosperous nation spent more time with The President of my third world country than he did his wife

If the same President of the prosperous country invited my President to speak to the congress so he could demand benefits for his illegal citizens already here in said prosperous county.

IF said prosperous country did not enforce laws regarding crossing the borders or paying taxes

If I knew said prosperous country would educate my children for free

If I knew said prosperous country would give me and mine food stamps, etc.

If I knew said prosperous country would give me and mine free medical care

If I knew said prosperous country would not enforce its laws pertaining to auto inspection, driver's license, insurance, banking etc. that they impose on their own citizens.

If all these and others things were known to be - I would certainly feel encouraged to 'immigrate' to that country - wouldn't you!

112 posted on 05/13/2002 7:05:50 PM PDT by nanny
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To: #3Fan
So you got your way. What exactly is better now. Were the alien workers sent back? Or are they still here? If they're still here, what was all the fuss over?

Not much, because Bush's inclination is still to pander to Latinos on the basis of coddling Illegal Immigration. But at least it's not worse.

OTH, It's better because Bush and the other pandering pols know that Americans are in no mood for their malfeasance on Illegals. Once in a while, they need to be reminded that they work for us, and serve at our pleasure.

So if his proposal would've passed, how would things be worse now in your eyes. It seems to me that the proposals defeat has had 0 effect on the alien worker problem. I mean, you got your way, so things must be going the way you want, eh?

I've explained it to you already... Amnesties encourage more Illegals.

Bush apparently wants to be part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Therefore, thwarting his attempted surrenders is now a necessary part of the solution.

My point is that there was a lot of fuss over what amounts to paperwork. I see no big numbers of alien workers going home, nor are they going to go home. No government is going to create an exodus situation.

Certainly not one that you'd settle for. My point is that we can't continue to allow vast regions of our country to be overrun by Illegals.

Tell you what, though... Start a campaign to have your state of Illinois boost it's population by 1.5 million Illegals, so that your numbers are proportional to California's, and then I'll at least concede your intellectual consistency.

The Hebrews had manna from heaven, and a fire by night, a cloud by day. Are we going to take a chance that millions of aliens forced back over the border at gunpoint are going to get those gifts?

What happens to them across the border is Mexico's problem, not mine.

But we don't need to force millions at gunpoint... With Total Asset Forfeiture, a few hundred thousand will do.

As for the rest...

They Will
Deport Themsleves

Click the link!

:^) What's your answer? Lincoln tried it with the freed slaves, they couldn't adjust.

Lincoln and the slaves? I fail to see your analogy.

Eisenhower booted 1.3 million Illegals during "Operation Wet-back" in the 50s... Was there a sudden upsurge in the need for therapy for maldjusted Mexicans?

A large number of people used to life in one country can't suddenly pick up in another country.

Didn't that same "large number of people" leave their countries and come here rather suddenly?

Think before you post.

What exactly were you complaing so hard about?

I'm disenchanted by the fact that my state is overrun with Illegals, while obtuse Americans living North of the Mason-Dixon and East of the Mississippi have their heads in a place that ostriches wouldn't venture, and they feel mighty smug about it.

There is bipartisan malfeasance on this issue, and you're comfortable with it because the crisis hasn't reached your state.

Illegals have never been encouraged to come and they keep coming so your argument doesn't have basis in reality.

Oh wow... Truly an Amnesty Deniers' HoF post!

#3Fan, Illegals are encouraged to come by the fact that we don't keep them out, we let them stay, and often pay them to do so.

I realize Illinois is relatively far-removed from the problem, but that's no excuse for spouting patent nonsense.

A battle won by the libs. It will help libs get elected, and there will be more open borders.

If so, that only illustrates the point that on this matter, Bush might as well be a lib, because he's done squat to protect our borders from Illegals.

You're OK with that, I'm not.

And the "Would you rather have Hillary?" retort is getting rather tired. I know the Democrats are corrupt on Illegals, I'm fighting against the GOP going down that road as well.

Are you prepared to give elections to the libs by pandering to Latinos on Illegal Immigration? Quit acting as if Bush and the rest ot our party have no choice... They do. The have it in their power to do the right thing.

But if Bush chooses surrender and pandering, my vote will be lost.




120 posted on 05/13/2002 7:34:29 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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