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Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese (Debate? "Gay" is a disqualifying frame of mind)
Centre Daily Times (State College PA) ^ | May. 12, 2002 | Mike Joseph

Posted on 05/12/2002 12:41:51 PM PDT by Notwithstanding







Posted on Sun, May. 12, 2002


Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese



By Mike Joseph

mjoseph@centredaily.com

With the Roman Catholic Church engulfed in a widespread sexual abuse scandal, conservative critics of the local bishop have stepped up their campaign to pressure him to stop using a priesthood candidate evaluator whose views on homosexuality they consider too liberal.

The campaign has included attacks on Web sites and an anonymous newspaper advertisement suggesting churchgoers consider withholding money until, among other things, the bishop "removes" the targeted evaluator, State College psychologist David J. Brown.

Although Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Bishop Joseph Adamec said collections and other charitable donations have not declined, some Catholic faithful who haven't before taken sides say they have considered using money to leverage a clarification and elaboration of diocesan policy from the bishop.

"We want the priests and the bishop to follow the teachings of the church. It's bizarre to have to say that, but that's what we want," said Mary Risley, 40, a parent and a parishioner at Our Lady of Victory Church in State College.

Risley said she has herself considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding church contributions because the money pays for important work that helps people. But during an informal social gathering last week, she recalled in an interview, the idea provoked an earnest, if relaxed, discussion among about 16 women, eight of whom are Catholics.

"Yes, we have truly thought about it because we don't think we're getting the whole story," Risley said. "I would like to get more clarification, but I would feel in my heart I was letting someone down if I did not support the work of the diocese. ... The bishop needs to address this issue."

Adamec said at a news conference last week that contributions have not diminished since the clergy sexual abuse scandal broke open two months ago. But last month -- in a letter that priests read to parishioners -- the bishop seemed to be mindful at least of the possibility.

"Know that your gifts were not used and will not be used to pay for legal defense or settlement of any claim in matters of litigation," the bishop wrote.

Taking stock of vows

The issue stirring some elements of the diocese is related to one that has made Catholics across America take stock of their faith and ask whether diocesan policies contribute to a secretive culture of homosexuality in the priesthood and the sexual abuse of young boys, allegations of which have saturated the press for the last two months.

More specifically, Catholics are debating whether being gay should be sufficient cause to exclude a man from the priesthood or whether a man's ability to honor vows of celibacy --regardless of his sexuality --should be decisive.

The debate ranges from anguished discussions about whether institutionalized celibacy vows attract psychosexually immature men to the priesthood to reminders that Mychal Judge -- the 68-year-old Catholic priest and fire chaplain who perished while helping others during the Sept. 11 rescue effort at the World Trade Center -- was gay.

While the policy of the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese and most other dioceses in America makes the prospect of celibacy the deciding factor, some dioceses, including the Philadelphia Archdiocese, screen out priesthood candidates with gay tendencies. The issue is expected to be hotly debated when American bishops meet in Dallas in June to try to adopt national protocols to prevent sexual abuse among clergy.

The nationwide scandal has led critics of Adamec and Brown in the local diocese to turn up the volume of their attacks, which include accusations that diocesan policy is heretical and which renew a debate that flared three years ago when the State College Area School District was considering a policy to prohibit harassment on the basis of sexual orientation.

One of the most vocal critics then, and now, has been Gary L. Morella, 55, a Penn State research assistant, father of three and grandfather of three, former altar boy and parochial school graduate. Morella, who fondly recalls the Latin Mass, has nearly completed a graduate degree in medieval Catholic philosophy for which he has written about the tension between faith and reason in the differences between St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas.

Morella, who views homosexuality as a development disorder that can be changed, said in an interview last week that his work to expose heresy in the church had its genesis about eight years ago as he watched a TV program featuring the historian John Dominic Crossan, author of the "The Historical Jesus" and "The Birth of Christianity."

"He said Jesus Christ died a beggar's death on the cross and his body was eaten by ravenous dogs -- he denied the Resurrection," Morella said. "I looked at this and I was watching this and I thought to myself, well, this man is insane. And then I saw that he was on the faculty of DePaul University, and that just lit up everything. I realized that there are major problems here, and I've been like this ever since."

Last month, a spokesman for Pope John Paul II, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, voiced his opinion that people with homosexual inclinations should not be ordained. Morella asserts that instances of the will of the Vatican are being defied by many dioceses in the United States, including the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese.

"I think that what's called for is a papal legate," Morella said. "I think that we need an enforcer to go to the dioceses in this country. I think the situation has gotten so out of control that we need nothing less than firsthand intervention from Rome itself to straighten this out."

Vocal psychologist foes

Morella said he had nothing to do with the a Centre Daily Times advertisement suggesting church contributions be withheld, though he said he understands the "frustration" that led to it.

The two-column ad in Wednesday's CDT noted that the bishop has just launched his annual appeal for donations and "suggested ... withholding our money" until he says how much "he has paid out to silence" sexual abuse victims, until he gives names of "known abusers" to the authorities and "until he removes the controversial psychologist."

Attempts by a reporter to identify who placed the ad were inconclusive. The CDT's advertising department refused to disclose the source, citing a policy of confidentiality. But another critic of the diocese administration, Harris Township resident Brian Kaleita, said in an interview that he knew who placed the ad, though he declined to answer a follow-up question asking whether he himself had done so.

In the interview, Kaleita described himself as a conservative leader in the community and said it is his view that homosexuals are entitled to every right that anyone else is but not to special treatment, the position of some opponents of the school district's anti-harassment policy proposal three years ago.

Kaleita said that "every right" does not include admission to seminaries because Vatican law is more restrictive, barring gay men from the clergy. He said Adamec is not following that law.

"The problem with our bishop is that he sees things the way Dr. Brown does instead of the way the pope does," Kaleita said. "We have a bishop who chooses to ignore the clear meaning of the teachings directly from Rome."

By contrast, many devout Catholics see the sexual abuse crisis in the church today as stemming not from one's sexual orientation but from sexual immaturity fostered by institutional church policy.

State College resident Herman Knoble, 59, is a Penn State research associate and a committed Catholic who attends Good Shepherd Catholic Church. Like Morella, he was an altar boy and a parochial school graduate. But unlike Morella, he views homosexuality as an innate trait for which someone cannot be blamed.

Knoble asserts that promiscuity is wrong and faults the Vatican for fostering an atmosphere of immature sexual development and exerting unnatural and inordinate control over "pelvic issues" that leads to sexual experimentation in immature and sometimes abusive ways.

"The Catholic Church needs to take a strong look at itself in how it tries to use orthodoxy to control people -- that is the crux of the issue," Knoble said. "Anything that has to do with sexuality, they want to control, not just people in the pews but everybody."

Brown, 58, the State College psychologist who does psychological evaluations for the diocese, said he had no doubt that he was the target of the anonymous ad. He said the ad appeared to signal an escalation of efforts by some conservative Catholics to pressure Adamec to discontinue contract work with him.

The Altoona-Johnstown Diocese includes 104 parish priests and about 112,000 parishioners. As the head of the diocese, Adamec uses Brown to provide about half of the psychological evaluations of priesthood applicants.

Brown said in an interview that he has conducted about 200 psychological evaluations of seminary candidates in the last 25 years, and that virtually none of them admits to gay orientation during the interviews. Brown said his report to the diocese about a candidate's sexual orientation includes what the candidate says, what the tests show and what he himself thinks.

In response to some of the accusations made against him, Brown said he has never given an unfavorable recommendation on a priesthood candidate because the candidate is heterosexual, and has never endorsed someone because he is gay or liberal.

He said perhaps one out of every four of the 200 seminary candidates he has screened has become a priest, and he said none of those priests has ever been accused or otherwise been alleged to have been sexually abusive to anyone.

"I'm proud of my record," Brown said.

His critics have also accused him of telling some candidates they were "too rigid," as Morella phrased it, referring to the infallibility of church doctrine on faith and morality.

Brown said that such a commentary on someone's personality would never come up in the psychological evaluation interview itself but could come up weeks later if a candidate sought feedback on the evaluation, part of which is a standard test designed to measure rigidity and other characteristics.

"Rigidity is a personality dimension that can apply to all ideological perspectives," Brown said.

Brown faulted his own critics for their narrow focus on right and wrong.

"They think there's only one right way to be and anything else is sinful," he said. "It really is just a discrimination against homosexuality."

Risley, the parent who has considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding contributions, is a parochial school graduate, she said the clergy sexual abuse scandal has not shaken her faith in the church because her faith does not rely on priests.

She said "there seems to be an issue with Dr. Brown" and that the bishop should address it. She said she has not yet come to a conclusion about whether men with gay tendencies should be barred from seminaries.

But she said that something needs to be done to prevent the abuse of children at the hands of the clergy and that, at some point, that could be withholding contributions, an action that might force church leaders to remember the origins of Christianity.

"If this is what it takes, if it takes our priest and our bishops standing on the corner begging for money to help the poor that's how it all started," she said.

Mike Joseph can be reached at 235-3910.




© 2001 centredaily and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.centredaily.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gay; homsexual; scandal
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Mortin Sult
"I believe Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy, not chasitity, but I don't claim any expertise in the matter." It's good you didn't claim authority in the matter because you are wrong. They DO in fact take vows of chastity, including against such things as "fudge-packing" as you so vulgarly put it.
42 posted on 05/12/2002 7:31:24 PM PDT by leilani
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To: Jorge
This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should.

It sort of is. Do you believe in redemption or forgiveness of sins?

43 posted on 05/12/2002 7:36:45 PM PDT by tbeatty
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To: Jorge
"This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should." NON-SEQUITER ALERT! WOW. HOW SLOW ARE ALL OF YOU FOLKS? NO. Priests, like public school biology teachers, can be either heterosexual or homosexual or nonsexual or pansexual. But if they ACT on those or any other impulses in a way that damage other people they are not priests, they are predators. Just like junior high-school soccer coaches who diddle their students. Got it?
44 posted on 05/12/2002 7:39:42 PM PDT by leilani
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To: Notwithstanding
The mere fact that there is apparently a "debate" implies that there is something to debate. This implication alone signifies a spiritual sickness.
45 posted on 05/12/2002 7:41:25 PM PDT by HENRYADAMS
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To: tbeatty
"This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should."

It sort of is. Do you believe in redemption or forgiveness of sins?

Absolutely.

46 posted on 05/12/2002 7:43:33 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Mortin Sult
"Rectory rectum parties are legal while their vows still prohibit marriage. No wonder gays enjoy the occupation. It's the only one where they can feel righteous relative to the activities of straights in the profession." - Mortin Sult. Well, I think your sophmoric pseudonym ( what are you, a freshman? I don't think a sophmore would have even tried to venture 'Mort Insult'.LOL. "Member" since April 2002. Go away, bigot.
47 posted on 05/12/2002 7:47:26 PM PDT by leilani
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: goldenstategirl
In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

You ask them during confession, as follows:

Bless me Father _____, for I have sinned. I has been ___ since my last confession. Before we get started here, I want to make sure I understand something. According to Church teachings, you are bestowed with the holy gift of being able to forgive my sins in place of Jesus. Before I can know if I will actually be forgiven, it is important for me to know if you are an actual priest in good standing with our Lord and Savior (I wouldn't want to walk out of here thinking my sins were forgiven, only to find out that in the Lord's eyes you didn't have the gift, so to speak). please answer yes or no to the following:
Are you a homosexual?
Have you ever engaged in homosexual acts, such as anal intercourse?
Do you think it is OK for priests to be homosexual?
Do you believe that acts involved with and practiced by homosexuals are not sins?

If he answers "YES" to any one of them, he can't be trusted.

It's a shame that it has come to this. A full, 100% clearing of all homosexuals and pedophiles from the clergy will be costly in manpower, but God will take care of that if they are earnest about "hating the sin and loving the sinner."

49 posted on 05/12/2002 7:56:46 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch
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To: leilani
"This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should."

NON-SEQUITER ALERT! WOW. HOW SLOW ARE ALL OF YOU FOLKS? NO. Priests, like public school biology teachers, can be either heterosexual or homosexual or nonsexual or pansexual. But if they ACT on those or any other impulses in a way that damage other people they are not priests, they are predators. Just like junior high-school soccer coaches who diddle their students. Got it?

You don't get it.
A priest is supposed to a representative of God, who has a position of authority in the Church.
This in not like being a "junior high-school soccer coach" or anything else.

Secondly your throwing "heterosexual or homosexual or nonsexual or pansexual" all together in one group assumes a moral equivalency that doesn't exist. At least nowhere in Biblical teaching.

God created heterosexuality, it reflects his natural design for human sexuality.
Homosexuality however is always defined as a sinful perversion of God's created intent, everywhere it is mentioned in the Bible it is called sin, and nowhere is it ever condoned by God.

So the idea that a priest in the church should even define themself as homosexual, celibate or not, defies the Church's teachings.

50 posted on 05/12/2002 8:00:30 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Mortin Sult
Ok,according to your logic, because some white hetererosexual guys have gotten away with stealing, then the laws against stealing are worthless. I think it's time to give up even trying to rationalise with you because you've made it clear your problem is with CATHOLOCISM, not the "priests" who have committed theses sex crimes.
51 posted on 05/12/2002 8:01:12 PM PDT by leilani
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To: JimVT
How about dropping the term homosexual? Sodomite is the proper description.
52 posted on 05/12/2002 8:02:04 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: sinkspur
The idea that we cannot really know and we will just have to take the word of each seminarian for it is how we got into this mess in the first place. Rage, ongoing rage, unrelenting rage against any and all attempts by lavenders to infiltrate the priesthood is called for. Someone else posted the silly Americanist notion that somehow it just doesn't seem FAIR to treat homosexuals any differently from normal candidates from the priesthood. This is the sort of slippery attitude that Americanist, modernist Kumbaya AmChurch "Catholicism" has wrought. Sero tolerance. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

What is really unfair is little children being molested by their priests and our Church being molested by their presence in positions of responsibility which they abuse.

Those posters are right who have noted that perverse desires indulged even intellectually find a home in the heart and should not find a home in the heart of anyone seeking to obtain or retain the status of priest. Homosexuality is always and everywhere intrinsically disordered according to the teachings of Rome. It has been the teaching from the beginning and it will remain the teaching until the end.

Another point which the quoted Pennsylvania lavender enablers who perform "psychological" interviews to rule out overly "rigid" candidates (i.e. actual Catholic candidates) seem to miss is that this is not about them. It is about whether the sorry excuse for a bishop who hires the unqualified amoral likes of them to screen candidates for the priesthood has any business continuing in the clergy much less as ordinary of his diocese. Purge him and the rest like him now.

53 posted on 05/12/2002 8:10:45 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: sinkspur
While it is the homosexual act that is condemned, the homosexual who does not repent is also condemned. Before there is forgiveness there must be repentance and that repentance is a concession of sinfulness. While all of us sin, there are few sins so vile as the pederasty, pedophilia, ephebophilia (for those who make a big deal of the difference) or homosexual acts with "consulting adults." The abuse of children adds extra dimensions but we have seen enough now to understand that zero tolerance is in order as to this "intrinsically disordered" way of life. Suspend on suspicion. Defrock on adequate proof and hold the offender up before the community as an example.
54 posted on 05/12/2002 8:18:27 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: Jorge
"So the idea that a priest in the church should even define themself as homosexual, celibate or not, defies the Church's teachings". OF COURSE THAT'S TRUE. Nor should a priest define themselves as heterosexual or pansexual or any-which-way-sexual. But people are born certain ways: heterosexual, homosexual, non-sexual, pan-sexual, whaterverwhichwaysexual. That's a FACT. That's how God ordered the world, whether or not you care for that reality.But if somebody's gonna be a priest and take the vow of, yes, CHASTITY, they have an obligation to kiss all that BYE-BYE, no matter WHAT gets their friggin' you-know-whats-off. (By the way, doctrinally, the RC church accepts homosexuality as a biologically natural orientation, but doesn't accept homosexual sex.Although I am heterosexual, I haven't quite figured out the philosophical consistency of this one)Look, I am as ANGRY as anyone else about the freaknut gay guys who have taken over the Roman Catholic Church. But the evil isn't in their gayness (there are many great born-gay priests who don't rape their young parishoners). The evil is in all these other bogus priests' predatory false-catholocism. You can't blame this on all gays any more than you can blame male on female rape on all heterosexual guys, OK?
55 posted on 05/12/2002 8:22:25 PM PDT by leilani
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: sinkspur
There is a distinction between "compassion for the person" and putting that intrinsically disordered person in a position wherein he has access to youth of his own sex in what amounts to "the near occasion of sin" as we call it. You are perfectly free to be compassionate but not at the expense of the innocence of children. Something about millstones. Furthermore, it is not compassionate to the homosexual to place him in the near occasion of sin. And it is downright ludicrous and scandalous to set up separate castes within the priesthood of those trusted to be near young men and those who are not.
57 posted on 05/12/2002 8:25:17 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: Jorge
So do you believe that someone who stole in their past (a thief) could be redeemed and would be able to become a priest?
58 posted on 05/12/2002 8:26:45 PM PDT by tbeatty
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Then you need to read some more of the Church's teaching. According to the pope, the status of the priest isn't relevant to the forgiveness of sins. The penantant person only has to believe that the priest is in good standing.

So the priest in the confession booth could be the biggest homosexual on the planet and as long as you believe in the miracle of faith and you do your penance as prescribed, you are saved.

59 posted on 05/12/2002 8:30:26 PM PDT by tbeatty
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To: tbeatty
So do you believe that someone who stole in their past (a thief) could be redeemed and would be able to become a priest?

Yes. And according the Bible, so should anyone who once was a homosexual.
But they shouldn't identify themself as a celibate homosexual.
They should identify themself as a new man in Christ.

60 posted on 05/12/2002 8:42:35 PM PDT by Jorge
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