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To: spunkets;WhiteKnuckles;Lazamataz;MossbergPump;RedWing9;Chi-townChief;BillyBoy;Mojo-jo-jo...
Chicagofarmer and lazmataz, you have better ping lists than I on Illinois gun issues. I think this desreves to be seen. YES i AGREE THIS DESERVES TO BE SEEN. My my horse computer with all the self defense rights good stuff is in the hospital. I am also on vacation until May 16th. But at McArthur said I shall return. In my absent shall you pick up the sword and fight the good fight? Chicagofarmer

You’re kidding, right? Have a nice vacation, but a thread like this and you tell me to PICK UP A SWORD?

For those who didn’t want to be pinged on this, sorry. Some of us thought it would make sense to at least develop a list of those interested in 2nd Amendment issues in Illinois. You may live here, you may be nearby, you may be far away and realize that what happens here (we had gunowner registration in 68) can happen elsewhere. FR mail me if you don’t want to be on such a list, or if I missed anyone. I pinged anyone who posted on the two threads on this incident.

………………………………..

A few comments, because sometimes I think these threads pass over important points.

A couple hours after posting this article I had the pleasure of attending the swearing in of new attorneys in the First (? Chicago) District of Illinois (no, I’m not one of them).

An early speaker spoke about this incident (front page news today). Her charge to these new attorneys, it’s one thing to get a restraining order, but you MUST see that it’s enforced, do what it takes. The judges in attendance nodded. I have no doubt of anyone’s sincerity. Could the judges and lawyers do better, sure. Not the problem, nor the solution.

I was happy to see these threads didn’t deteriorate into a criticism of the LEOs.

Seventeen minutes. I suspect the dispatcher will relive those minutes the rest of her life. I know several Chicago Cops, seventeen seconds would have worked for them. Maybe the system broke (Daley will play with that), but I doubt the people did. This was a tragedy.

What do we do?

While Chicago’s gun laws are despicable, this victim could have been armed. It was in her home, a shotgun would have worked (sorry farmer, no sword). Why didn’t she have one?

The first problem we must confront is the demonization of gun ownership. Maybe it was her choice not to be armed. But there are social pressures out there that disparage gun ownership. What can you do? If you’re a shooter or hunter, particularly if you live in a urban area, let your friends and neighbors know. If you’re responsible, they’ll begin to understand that these are responsible sports, and that gunowners aren’t demons.

Does the 2nd Amendment protect a personal or collective right? Personal, of course, but the wrong question.

Predating the Constitution, at the very birth of our nation, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LLLL, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,…

What’s missing, Life. Our rights are God given, protected by the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, but not fully enumerated. If we have a right to LIFE, we have a right to defend our lives. This would have been so basic to the founders, I can understand why it wasn’t the first, or at least in the 2nd. It’s basic, there is no Liberty or Pursuit of Happiness without Life.

Gun ownership, hunting, shooting sports, the 2nd Amendment needs to be explained to your friends in these common sense terms, not in arguments about about individual rights vs militias. If you’re a responsible citizen, and gunowners are, your friends will understand.

If someone had spoken to Ronyale White, she might have understood. She might have made a different choice. She might not. But as gunowners we have an obligation to make sure our friends and neighbors are fully informed in their decision making, and to defend our decisions.

40 posted on 05/09/2002 6:09:47 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: wardaddy;Mercuria;pro2AMom;OWK;AKBear;dan from michigan;lowbridge;Carry_Okie;Abundy;seamole...
Ping to a few I might have missed in 40
41 posted on 05/09/2002 6:20:12 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Good post. I often let people know that I enjoy target shooting, have gotten pretty good at it, and hope to get better, and that I'm getting a nice collection of firearms. I am often stared at in disbelief (I'm a woman, btw)- the reaction is that I don't LOOK like someone who has guns. Oh? And what, pray tell, does a shooter look like? Most people end up stuttering and just change the subject.

I'm not in Illinois, I'm in California, and I'm interested in 2ndA issues everywhere.

43 posted on 05/09/2002 6:28:21 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: SJackson
Thanks. Please keep me pinged.
45 posted on 05/09/2002 6:35:37 PM PDT by sistergoldenhair
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To: SJackson
Great post at #40! Thanks for the heads up!
53 posted on 05/09/2002 7:31:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: SJackson
I know that, actually. I was making a feeble attempt at humor.

Not that I have anything against humor: gallows humor, feeble humor, or any other kind. If I can't get through the day laughing, I can't get through it at all.

I'm still irked that no proper pathological exam was made on Lee...they probably would have found that he just blew a gasket (aneurysm), but they would also have found that he was taking somebody else's prescribed medication to cover up the pain. So the whole thing was swept under the bathmat. :-P

82 posted on 05/10/2002 9:18:51 AM PDT by thulldud
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