Posted on 05/01/2002 9:09:03 PM PDT by Pokey78
Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:26 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Sept. 11 might have also brought down a political movement.
The great free-market revolution that began with the coming to power of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan at the close of the 1970s has finally reached its Thermidor, or point of reversal. Like the French Revolution, it derived its energy from a simple idea of liberty, to wit, that the modern welfare state had grown too large, and that individuals were excessively regulated. The truth of this idea was vindicated by the sudden and unexpected collapse of Communism in 1989, as well as by the performance of the American and British economies in the 1990s.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Their fondest dreams are to gain power and prevent the states from enacting any law that "enforces morality" on the immoral. The libertarians are the very definition of "statist". I have asked old Tpaine to cite ONE example of court decisions based on the 14th that was NOT an advancement of liberal agenda. The result was in the words of that great libertarian thinker OWK ,,,,"crickets".
Now, I am going to look up that author; many thanks.
And they're blind to the irony.
No they aren't. That is underestimating them. However; they are dumb enough to think they are fooling anyone. There are 66 planks in the Libertarian parties platform. There is ONE reference to the constitution in the entire screed and yet they hold themselves out to be the "protector of the constitution". What they don't say is that their constitution has not been written yet beyond the next "Star Wars" episode.
Good point. Perhaps I was too charitable.
>My observation from posters here is that quite a few
>are just dopers for whom Libertarianism provides an
>intellectual figleaf.
As I said, you made the statement that the libertarians on this thread
are dopers. The quote of your earlier words is above. Perhaps you're
the one with the memory problems.
Defend your slanderous statement with evidence that "quite a few are
just dopers" or retract it.
I'd be interested in seeing some evidence that the GOP actually supports smaller government. And this is from someone who voted for Bush.
"Don, I DARE you to say shit like that to my face. Do you like eating teeth? You egotistical, authoritarian shit bag, get a life and leave your betters (which would be most everyone else) alone. "
And once again, Libertarians speak their mind(?).
This is your email to me.
"Don, I DARE you to say shit like that to my face. Do you like eating teeth? You egotistical, authoritarian shit bag, get a life and leave your betters (which would be most everyone else) alone. "
And once again, Libertarians speak their mind(?).
351 posted on 5/3/02 9:07 AM Eastern by Don Myers
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Split personality, Don?
As you noted, they do exist, and in some cases (e.g., traffic laws or taxation for the common defense) it is desirable and necessary to pass laws to ensure that those community interests are preserved.
Your needless (but typical) descent to insults does nothing to alter the existence of community interests; however, it does put a rather unpleasant face on those who claim otherwise.
Well, libertarians claim to be anti-statists.
As for the other -- no: amusement and disdain, perhaps, but hate and fear would require the libertarians to present a serious threat of coming to power.
Here's a quick review of the most popular "reasons" that liberals, conservatives, intellectuals, janitors, cultural jihadists with brains bathed with wild turkey, roscoes, and the rest will cite you in order to defend the theory that the state is good, wise, at least inevitable, and certainly better than other conceivable alternatives:
1. The Social Contract - This is sort of a political version of the doctrine of "original sin." Supposedly, way back their someplace (with Adam I suppose) we "signed" a deal waiving all of our creator endowed rights and now there's nothing we can do about it. None of those that attempt to justify the state with this excuse can produce a document with signatures, but their faith is undiminished.
2. Divine Right - This theory is actually just as popular today as it ever was. Every time someone tells you to "render unto Caeser," he's saying, "God has ordained the current thugs that control your turf. And when a rival gang moves in and supplants the current extortionists, then, ergo, God has ordained that you shall do whatever they tell you too."
3. Public Goods - This theory holds that if A engages in a certain activity for his own benefit and it turns out that B also benefits from A's activity, then A must forego all activity and benefits derived therefrom because it frosts A so that B is getting free-bies.
The classic example that they use for this in Economics class is fireworks. There's no way for A to prevent B from enjoying A's fireworks, so, ergo without the state (and its thugs) we will never have any fireworks. Adherents to this theory of the state are not deterred by the fact that every 4th of July, private fireworks are launched all over the country.
Their other standard example is protection. They ask, "How will Exxon pay for the aircraft carriers they need to protect their far flung business interests unless the state dips into each paycheck of every wage laborer that lives in America?" Well, they don't actually ask the question like that, do they?
Congress's constitutional powers to raise a navy and lay and collect import duties could be viewed as at least a half assed attempt to combine usage fees (import taxes) on those receiving the service. Our constitutional prohibitions against government standing armies and affirmations of people's militias directly contradicts the "public goods" theory of the state with regard to the issue of protection.
But, like someone said a hundred or so posts back, either you believe in the Enlightenment or you believe in magic. The old magicians told us that the state was inevitable because God said so and/or we all were grafted onto the communal body when we "signed" our social contracts.
Nowadays, we have modern priests (economists) who have graphs and computer printouts that "prove" that without the state there would be no fireworks, protection, street lights, prescription drugs for seniors, or food to eat.
You are completely bonkers with your mania. -- And a cowardly scumbag to boot. - For not pinging Wolfie.
Leftists and libertarians would love to stretch the 14th Amendment even further. - roscoe
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Be no stretch to get it to 'cover' 2nd amendment rights in CA. -- Except for you Rino gun grabbing statists.
Yep. They hate our states.
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