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Was Lincoln a Tyrant?
LewRockwell.com ^ | April 29, 2002 | Thomas DiLorenzo

Posted on 04/29/2002 10:04:22 PM PDT by davidjquackenbush

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Was Lincoln a Tyrant?

by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

In a recent WorldNetDaily article, “Examining ‘Evidence’ of Lincoln’s Tyranny (April 23),” David Quackenbush accuses me of misreading several statements by the prominent historians Roy Basler and Mark Neely in my book, The Real Lincoln:  A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War With regard to Basler, I quote him in Abraham Lincoln:  His Speeches and Writings, as suggesting that on the issue of slavery, post 1854, Lincoln’s  “words lacked effectiveness.”  Quackenbush says he was not referring to Lincoln’s comments on slavery here, but other things.   I read him differently. What Basler said was that, yes, Lincoln used eloquent language with regard to human equality and “respecting the Negro as a human being,” but he offered no concrete proposals other than the odious colonization idea of his political idol, Henry Clay.  As Basler wrote, “The truth is that Lincoln had no solution to the problem of slavery [as of 1857] except the colonization idea which he inherited from Henry Clay.”  In the next sentence he mentions Lincoln’s eloquent natural rights language, then in the next sentence after that, he makes the “lacking in effectiveness” comment.  What I believe Basler is saying here is that because Lincoln’s actions did not match his impressive rhetoric, his words did indeed lack effectiveness. 

As Robert Johannsen, author of Lincoln, the South, and Slavery put it, Lincoln’s position on slavery was identical to Clay’s:  “opposition to slavery in principle, toleration of it in practice, and a vigorous hostility toward the abolition movement” (emphasis added).   Regardless of what Basler said, I take the position that Lincoln’s sincerity can certainly be questioned in this regard.  His words did lack effectiveness on the issue of slavery because he contradicted himself so often.  Indeed, one of his most famous defenders, Harry Jaffa, has long maintained that Honest Abe was a prolific liar when he was making numerous racist and white supremacist remarks.   He was lying, says Jaffa, just to get himself elected.   In The Lincoln Enigma Gabor Boritt even goes so far in defending Lincoln’s deportation/colonization proposals to say, “This is how honest people lie.”  Well, not exactly.  Truly honest people do not lie. 

The problem with this argument, Joe Sobran has pointed out, is that Lincoln made these kinds of ugly comments even when he was not running for political office.  He did this, I believe, because he believed in these things.

Basler was certainly aware of Lincoln’s voluminous statements in opposition to racial equality.  He denounced “equality between the white and black races” in his August 21, 1858 debate with Stephen Douglas; stated in his 1852 eulogy to Henry Clay that as monstrous as slavery was, eliminating it would supposedly produce “a greater evil, even to the cause of human liberty itself;” and in his February 27, 1860 Cooper Union speech advocated deporting black people so that “their places be . . . filled up by free white laborers.”  In fact, Lincoln clung to the colonization/deportation idea for the rest of his life.  There are many other similar statements.   Thus, it is not at all a stretch to conclude that Basler’s comment that Lincoln’s words “lacked effectiveness” could be interpreted as that he was insincere.  It also seems to me that Johannsen is right when he further states that “Nearly all of [Lincoln’s] public statements on the slavery question prior to his election as president were delivered with political intent and for political effect.”  As David Donald wrote of Lincoln in Lincoln Reconsidered, “politics was his life.”  In my book I do not rely on Basler alone, but any means, to make my point that Lincoln’s devotion to racial equality was dubious, at best.

Quackenbush apparently believes it is a sign of sincerity for Lincoln to have denounced slavery in one sentence, and then in the next sentence to denounce the abolition of slavery as being even more harmful to human liberty.  (I apparently misread the statement Lincoln once made about “Siamese twins” by relying on a secondary source that got it wrong and will change it if there is a third printing).

Quackenbush takes much out of context and relies exclusively on Lincoln’s own arguments in order to paint as bleak a picture of my book as possible.  For example, in my book I quote Mark Neely as saying that Lincoln exhibited a “gruff and belittling impatience” over constitutional arguments that had stood in the way of his cherished mercantilist economic agenda (protectionist tariffs, corporate welfare, and a federal monopolization of the money supply) for decades.  Quackenbush takes me to task for allegedly implying that Neely wrote that Lincoln opposed the Constitution and not just constitutional arguments. But I argue at great length in the book that Lincoln did resent the Constitution as well as the constitutional arguments that were made by myriad American statesmen, beginning with Jefferson.  In fact, this quotation of Neely comes at the end of the chapter entitled “Was Lincoln a Dictator,” in which I recount the trashing of the Constitution by Lincoln as discussed in such books as James Randall’s Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln, Dean Sprague’s Freedom Under Lincoln, and Neely’s Fate of Liberty Lincoln’s behavior, more than his political speeches, demonstrated that he had little regard for the Constitution when it stood in the way of his political ambitions.

One difference between how I present this material and how these others authors present it is that I do not spend most of my time making excuses and bending over backwards to concoct “rationales” for Lincoln’s behavior.  I just present the material.  The back cover of Neely’s book, for example, states that thanks to the book, “Lincoln emerges . . . with his legendary statesmanship intact.”  Neely won a Pulitzer Prize for supposedly pulling Lincoln’s fanny out of the fire with regard to his demolition of civil liberties in the North during the war.

Quackenbush dismisses the historical, constitutional arguments opposed to Lincoln’s mercantilist economic agenda, as Lincoln himself sometimes did,  as “partisan zealotry.”  Earlier in the book I quote James Madison, the father of the Constitution, as vetoing an “internal improvements” bill sponsored by Henry Clay on the grounds that “it does not appear that the power proposed to be exercised in the bill is among the enumerated powers” of the Constitution.  Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, and John Tyler made similar statements.  These were more than partisan arguments by political hacks and zealots.  The father of the Constitution himself, Madison, believed the corporate welfare subsidies that  Lincoln would later champion were unconstitutional. 

Add to this Lincoln’s extraordinary disregard for the Constitution during his entire administration, and it seems absurd for Quackenbush or anyone else to portray him as a champion of the Constitution who was pestered by “political zealots.”  Among Lincoln’s unconstitutional acts were launching an invasion without the consent of Congress, blockading Southern ports before formally declaring war, unilaterally suspending the writ of habeas corpus and arresting and imprisoning thousands of Northern citizens without a warrant, censoring telegraph communications, confiscating private property, including firearms, and effectively gutting the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. 

Even quite worshipful Lincoln biographers and historians called him a “dictator.”  In his book, Constitutional Dictatorship, Clinton Rossiter devoted an entire chapter to Lincoln and calls him a “great dictator” and a “true democrat,” two phrases that are not normally associated with each other.  “Lincoln’s amazing disregard for the . . . Constitution was considered by nobody as legal,” said Rossiter.  Yet Quackenbush throws a fit because I dare to question Lincoln’s devotion to constitutional liberty.

Quackenbush continues to take my statements out of context when commenting on the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and he refuses to admit that Lincoln did in fact lament the demise of the Bank of the United Stated during the debates.  His earlier claim that there was not a single word said during the Lincoln-Douglas debates about economic policy is simply untrue. 

But the larger context is that even though most of the discussion during the debates centered on such issues as the extension of slavery into the new territories, they were really a manifestation of the old debate between the advocates of centralized government (Hamilton, Clay, Webster, Lincoln) and of decentralized government and states’ rights (Jefferson, Jackson, Tyler, Calhoun, Douglas).  At the time of the debates Lincoln had spent about a quarter of a century laboring in the trenches of the Whig and Republican Parties, primarily on behalf of the so-called “American System” of protectionist tariffs, tax subsidies to corporations, and centralized banking.  When the Whig Party collapsed Lincoln assured Illinois voters that there was no essential difference between he two parties.  This is what he and the Whigs and Republicans wanted a centralized government for.  As Basler said, at the time he had no concrete solution to the slavery issue other than to propose sending black people back to Africa, Haiti, or Central America.  He did, however, have a long record of advocating the programs of the “American System” and implementing a financially disastrous $10 million “internal improvements” boondoggle in Illinois in the late 1830s when he was an influential member of  the state legislature. 

Lincoln spent his 25-year off-and-on political career prior to 1857 championing the Whig project of centralized government that would engage in a kind of economic central planning.  When the extension of slavery became the overriding issue of the day he continued to hold the centralizer’s position.  And as soon as he took office, he and the Republican party enacted what James McPherson called a “blizzard of legislation” that finally achieved the “American System,” complete with federal railroad subsidies, a tripling of the average tariff rate that would remain that high or higher long after the war ended, and centralized banking with the National Currency and Legal Tender Acts.  It is in this sense that the Lincoln-Douglas debates really did have important economic ramifications. 

Quackenbush complains that I do not quote Lincoln enough.  He falsely states that there’s only one Lincoln quote in the entire book, which is simply bizarre.  On page 85 alone I quote Lincoln the secessionist, speaking on January 12, 1848 (“The War with Mexico:  Speech in the United States House of Representatives”):  “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.  This is a most valuable, a most sacred right --a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.  Nor is the right confined to cases I which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it.  Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.”  That’s four sentences, by my count, and there are plenty of other Lincoln quotes in my book, contrary to Quackenbush’s kooky assertion.

But he has a point:  I chose to focus in my book more on Lincoln’s actions than his words.  After all, even Bill Clinton would look like a brilliant statesman if he were judged exclusively by his pleasant-sounding speeches, many of which were written by the likes of James Carville and Paul Begala.  Yet, this is how many Lincoln scholars seem to do their work, even writing entire books around single short speeches while ignoring much of Lincoln’s actual behavior and policies.

I also stand by my argument that Lincoln was essentially the anti-Jefferson in many ways, including his repudiation of the principle in the Declaration of Independence that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.  I don’t see how this can even be debatable.  The Whigs were always the anti-Jeffersonians who battled with the political heirs of Jefferson, such as Andrew Jackson and John Tyler.  Lincoln was solidly in this tradition, even though he often quoted Jefferson for political effect.  He also quoted Scripture a lot even though, as Joe Sobran has pointed out, he never could bring himself to become a believer.

In this regard I believe the Gettysburg Address was mostly sophistry.  As H.L. Mencken once wrote, “it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense.”   It was the Union soldiers in the battle, he wrote, who “actually fought against self determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves.”  Regardless of what one believes was the main cause of the war, it is indeed true that the Confederates no longer consented to being governed by Washington, D.C. and Lincoln waged a war to deny them that right.

It’s interesting that even though the title of Quackenbush’s article had to do with “Evidence of Lincoln’s Tyranny,” in fourteen pages he does not say a single word about the voluminous evidence that I do present, based on widely-published and easily-accessible materials, of Lincoln’s tyrannical behavior in trashing the Constitution and waging war on civilians in violation of international law and codes of morality.  Instead, he focuses on accusations of misplaced quotation marks, footnotes out of order, or misinterpretations of a few quotations. 

April 27, 2002

Thomas J. DiLorenzo [send him mail] is the author of the LRC #1 bestseller, The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War (Forum/Random House 2002) and professor of economics at Loyola College in Maryland.

Copyright 2002 LewRockwell.com

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TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: dilorenzo; dixielist; lincoln
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To: Colt .45
You all can't bear to hear the truth about Lincoln because it proves the Yankee's culpability for an unjust war of aggression.

If everyone could have their own little sandbox to play in, then the CSA theory of government could be allowed to hold sway. But as long as the world is full of Hitlers and Pol Pots and Milosovecs, (sp) we are better off sticking together.

In a very real sense, it is just that simple.

Walt

201 posted on 05/01/2002 6:43:11 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
If everyone could have their own little sandbox to play in, then the CSA theory of government could be allowed to hold sway. But as long as the world is full of Hitlers and Pol Pots and Milosovecs, (sp) we are better off sticking together. In a very real sense, it is just that simple.

The exact argument made by world government socialists to persuade people to give up their liberty for a false security.

Thanks St. Abe, thanks a lot.

202 posted on 05/01/2002 7:19:45 AM PDT by muleboy
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To: muleboy
The exact argument made by world government socialists to persuade people to give up their liberty for a false security.

False security?

Did Hitler drop mortar bombs in your back yard? No. Did Pol Pot? No. Did Milosovec? No.

Would they if they could? Yes.

That is real security, not false security.

I am sorry for whatever is bugging you, but it is not going to be helped by Balkanizing the country.

Walt

203 posted on 05/01/2002 7:23:13 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
So you are finally acknowledging that you are a world government socialist? Nice to see that you are at least occasionally capable of honesty. Of course we "neoconfederates" already recognized you for what you are a long time ago. Have a nice day Wlat.
204 posted on 05/01/2002 8:38:07 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: shuckmaster
i fear you are correct.

one of the "bigshots" told me in a FReepmail that the "moderators are NOT damnyankees AND southHATERS.

i told him, that based on past performance, they we GUILTY till PROVEN INNOCENT!

for dixie LIBERTY,sw

205 posted on 05/01/2002 8:53:23 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: shuckmaster
Hey I am just checking in at FR after a few days absence.

What's with all of the comments on this thread being removed except those of the Apester Booster Club?

BTW, we rented the new PLANET OF THE APES movie for the kids this weekend. Did you realize that they have a picture of Ape Linkum at the end of the movie? If you know where a jpg of this 'true' Ape Linkum resides on the net and can direct me to same I would appreciate it.

206 posted on 05/01/2002 8:53:23 AM PDT by one2many
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To: Colt .45
EXACTLY!

so saith the LORD of HOSTS: "Let my people GO!"

for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC,sw

207 posted on 05/01/2002 8:58:22 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: muleboy
EXACTLY! a new (and much improved) Southron Republic would have the world's 5th largest economy,few taxes,a "citizens' militia system" like that of the Swiss, complete religious and social freedom, local-based government,be anti-imperialist and would be FREE of the hateful, hatefilled, racist,anti-semetic,anti-religon damnyankees!

let LIBERTY come & SOON,sw

208 posted on 05/01/2002 9:03:49 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: stand watie
I doubt a "Southron Republic" would be without many flaws, but it would likely be a damn sight better than what we have.
209 posted on 05/01/2002 9:16:50 AM PDT by muleboy
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To: stand watie
EXACTLY! a new (and much improved) Southron Republic would have the world's 5th largest economy,few taxes,a "citizens' militia system" like that of the Swiss, complete religious and social freedom, local-based government,be anti-imperialist and would be FREE of the hateful, hatefilled, racist,anti-semetic,anti-religon damnyankees!

let LIBERTY come & SOON,sw

You are just saying that because you think you could convince them to adopt your daring and innovative new rules of capitalization and punctuation.

In the unlikely event that our country split apart, the fragments would either sink into decay or fall under the influence of the European Community or whatever the new world power would be. Break up this country and you inevitably doom what remains of the American ethos from playing much of a role in the world or even holding its own at home. You would either opt out of the global economy and grow poorer and more isolated and inbred or remain in the world economic system under terms set by the new ruling powers.

Talk of America becoming a "colony of the world" would then be even truer. So when the Gulf Coast becomes the North shore of a Latin lake and your poor Blacks and Whites are angry about Mexican labor and European or South American bosses, you will regret today's bravado.

Die-hards who are always complaining about their state or local Republican or Democratic parties and the "country club" types fail to realize that after secession those would still be the people running things. Freed from having to keep up their end of the North-South opposition and given an independent country to rule over, Southern political elites would demonstrate their true liberal leanings. Perhaps they could save the new country from falling too much under foreign domination, but the price would be becoming more like European and Latin American elites in order to compete with them more effectively and cope with the new Eurocentric world.

But then your last comment reveals you to be a quixotic utopian, so I don't think you'd agree.

210 posted on 05/01/2002 9:53:58 AM PDT by x
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To: muleboy
i NEVER said that the Southron Republic, of which i both dream and write of, would be FLAWLESS!

BUT we would be FREE to have the sort of society that southrons want and the damnyankees would be free to have the sort of mean-spirited,imperialist,interventionist,anti-religious,anti-semitic,hatefilled,racebaiting,PRO-abortion,BIG tax, self-righteous AND SOCIALIST country that they seem to desire!

EVERYONE WINS!

then the damnyankees can cuss us and look down on us to their hearts content---we won't care, because we'll be FREE!

for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC,sw

211 posted on 05/01/2002 10:03:13 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: x
you are very welcome to your opinion. as we used to say in the army, everybody has one and they all, to one degree or another, stink.

YES, i do believe that those of us from the old rebel families will have MUCH to say about writing the Confederation Documents that will form the basis of a new, and much improved, SR. AND we southrons have learned much about how to improve our new country by WATCHING the damnyankees ruin what USED TO BE the best nation on earth. hopefully, we will not make the same mistakes as the socialist, damnyankee-controlled, "new & modern amerika" has made since the FDR administration.

i am hardly a "country clubber", though, as i have a job in the HVAC service business & am a retired LEO!

do i detect a bit of the usual and pervasive damnyankee RACISM in your response? your "latin lake" comment makes me squeamish, as BOTH of my much-beloved daughters are adopted from foreign countries and BOTH are beautiful,multi-talented,educated,well-dressed,intelligent,well-spoken, lady-like and religious. NO MAN could ask for more from ANY daughter! BOTH are MUCH smarter than their old man, being engineers (MSEE & MSCE!).

as for my "creative" spelling/capitalization, well you'll get used to it OR you'll quit reading my posts. frankly, i don't care a damn what you or any other FReeper thinks about that subject.

for a FREE dixie REPUBLIC while i'm young enough to enjoy it,sw

212 posted on 05/01/2002 10:26:47 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: x
BTW, there is plenty of room in the north american continent for 7 countries to grow and flourish, according to the needs of the countries citizens.

longterm,i believe that NA will have the following nations:Azatlan,Canada,Mexico,Repulique Quebecois,Southron Republic & the USA.

NONE of the nations will be destroyed by being FREE;none will sink due to having too much diversity of form;three may be destroyed/splintered by trying to keep the staus quo AND by failing to free their minorities, which otherwise,longterm, might become trading partners and good neighboors!

for a free dixie,sw

213 posted on 05/01/2002 10:35:59 AM PDT by stand watie
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To: x
In our present context, I am hopeful that innovations in technology will provide the foundation for non-violent, relatively easy balkanization, wherein 5 to 10 new nations can become vibrant experiments in various forms of "democracy" and, let's face it, varying degrees of inevitable socialism.

Each new "country" would quickly reflect it's own cultural, economic, and political ideology.

Throw in treaties for commerce and mutual defense and the world would turn away from it's present globalist/socialist path.

This could be done in the present United "States" if the Constitution was honored.

Liberty is a virus that, unfortunately, is hard to catch and easy to destroy.

Pardon my quixotic moment for the day, I just had to let it out.

214 posted on 05/01/2002 10:45:50 AM PDT by muleboy
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To: Non-Sequitur
Evidence please!
215 posted on 05/01/2002 11:05:14 AM PDT by Colt .45
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To: Colt .45
OK.

Did Davis not ignore his own constitution by failing to fill an entire branch of government that it called for?

Simple. A reading of the confederate constitution shows that like the United States Constitution it calls for three branches of Government: Legislative, Executive, and Judicial. Jefferson Davis never established a confederate supreme court as called for in Articel III. He ignored his own constitution.

Were people not locked up and newspapers not censored under his regime?

In his book "Southern Rights:Political Prisoners and the Myth of Confederate Constitutionalism" Mark E. Neely Jr. details many of the estimated 8000 political prisoners held by the confederacy during the Civil War. On a per capita basis those 8000 far exceed the 25,000 that Lincoln is supposed to have held. McPherson has several quotes in his book on the effects of censorship in Richmond.

Did the state not take control of whole industries like textile and salt, and exert undue control over others like shipping and railroads?

In his new book "Look Away: A History of the Confederate States of America" William C. Davis has a chapter titled 'Cotton Communism, Salt Socialism, Whiskey Welfare' where he goes into great detail on how the states took over and ran whole industries, allegedly for the war effort. One state, I believe it was Mississippi, had to import cotton cloth through the blockade for domestic use.

Enjoy.

216 posted on 05/01/2002 11:23:52 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: ravinson
Based on my quick word search of the debates, it appears that Lincoln did very briefly mention his belief that a national bank was Constitutional on several occasions, so McPherson overstated the single-issue nature of the debates somewhat.

Always eager to be proven wrong, I would love to see the text you have in mind.

You mention the fact that a search shows the topic arising in several of the debates. I think I know why. Another equally spurious pattern of DiLorenzo is to misunderstand Lincoln's invocation of the Jackson Bank Charter veto as an economic point. I have not yet seen a single instance where Lincoln expresses his opinion that the bank was Constitutional in the Lincoln Douglas Debates -- in fact, at any time in the late '50's. Each time I have seen the matter referred to by Lincoln, it is scrupulously restricted to his point that Douglas and the Democrats have spent 30 years rejecting the Supreme Court decision on the Bank, and now want to demand that the Republicans accept Dred Scott simply because the Supreme Court issued it.

In fact, if you (can bear to) read DiLorenzo closely in the past months, you will see that he has seized on my expression that there is not a "word" on economic doctrine in the debates. Your word search shows, what I never intended to deny, that economic words occur. The point is that they do not occur as expressions of economic doctrine, but of discussions regarding the authority of the Supreme Court wholly contained to the context of the question of what authority the Dred Scott decision must be granted. This is a subtle enough point (having about a teaspoon of subtlety) that DiLorenzo has seized on it as an occasion to avoid admitting that McPherson is right, and the exclusive topic of the debates was slavery.

The point, again, is just whether there is any text in which Lincoln explicitly or even by clear implication goes beyond noting that the Democrats have opposed a Supreme Court decision, and goes on to make the separate point that he, Lincoln, AGREES with that Supreme Court decision.

Thanks for your help in settling this matter one way or another.

Always keeping in mind, of course, that this all started because DiLorenzo said that Lincoln "championed" the "corrupt Whig economic agenda" in "virtually every one of the Lincoln Douglas debates." This, I think we all agree is an entirely different and totally unsupported claim.

I'll look forward to seeing what texts you find. I may have missed something.

217 posted on 05/01/2002 11:39:32 AM PDT by davidjquackenbush
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To: muleboy
Your idea is interesting and similar to my own. I agree that technological developments make the maintainence of centralized control ever more difficult, at least over a people that has some capacity for energy, and for pushing its decentralizing advantage.

But as you note, with need for treaties for defense and such, there will still be need for some kind of common framework. My own hope is that

a) the founders were right in identifying which functions were properly national, and which more local, and that therefore

b) technological developments will naturally tend to make federal control more difficult in those areas where that control is being already exercised beyond its natural limits, and that, therefore,

c) technology (if the people maintains its energy to use it for decentralizing behaviour, which is certainly questionable) may be leading us rather painlessly toward a restraint of federal tyranny, even though our politicians are still passing laws, and our media and pundits still speaking, on the premise of the old centralized system.

Perhaps it's quixotic, and it is certainly optimistic, but my hope is that functions of social control, educational tyranny, economic centralization, etc., are precisely those that the feds will find increasingly hard to enforce, whatever silly ambitions they have to do so. But that common defense, for example, will be less threatened by technological change -- perhaps because the purpose is so clear, so necessary and unifying, and so directly aided by technological expertise.

All depends on a people willing to press its advantage, and increasingly withdraw its energetic servility from centralized projects that it does not believe in. If we remain a people capable of self-government, material factors (in the sense of technology) may be moving our way. I'm not sure that even local socialism, as you mention, would have much of an advantage over liberty just from the fact of decentralization. It's a cheerful thought.

218 posted on 05/01/2002 11:56:35 AM PDT by davidjquackenbush
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To: davidjquackenbush
10 years ago I was very optimistic that the freedom and ability to circumvent centralized communication systems (the national media) through the use of the internet, would provide a window of opportunity for people to demand decentralization and more limited government.

While I am still hopeful today, I am less so than 10 years ago.

Technology, in my opinion, has always been a double-edged sword. As capable of enslaving as it is of liberating, from Gutenberg to Atomic power to todays embryonic research. As always, like you said, it all depends on people to demand for themselves, liberty and autonomy versus the "economy" of centralization and false security.

Liberty requires a great effort to establish and maintain. Mankind, imo, has yet to prove that it is capable of sustaining the effort, but there is always hope.

219 posted on 05/01/2002 12:20:19 PM PDT by muleboy
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To: stand watie
hopefully, we will not make the same mistakes as the socialist, damnyankee-controlled, "new & modern amerika" has made since the FDR administration.

Seems most of the big "mistakes" made since FDR were made by Presidents from Dixie. There have been four Southern presidents in my lifetime (not counting Truman from Missouri and counting Bush who is really "West Texas" not Dixie). The first three did more to expand the welfare state mentality, damage national security, degrade our heritage, and overtax the citizens than any president in history, including FDR. Here’s hoping the 4th breaks to mold on Southern failures in the White House. And before LBJ, the last Southroon in the White House was international dreamer and neo-confederate who helped write the fictitious history you boys are sucked into, Woodrow Wilson, a major league nut case.

All and all, the South hasn’t produced a decent leader since James Monroe.

220 posted on 05/01/2002 12:24:40 PM PDT by Ditto
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