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1 posted on 04/25/2002 9:41:57 AM PDT by Korth
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To: Korth
Bump
2 posted on 04/25/2002 9:53:28 AM PDT by AUgrad
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To: Korth
may as well throw Bill Bennett in with that "neo-Con" bunch, too.
4 posted on 04/25/2002 10:01:56 AM PDT by Hail Caesar
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To: Korth
Im against the WOD but Im also against Neoconfederate Lincoln bashing nonsense.
5 posted on 04/25/2002 10:03:38 AM PDT by weikel
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To: Korth
A bunch of people will just look at the URL and disregard this article out of hand, unfortunately. Lew is sometimes off his rocker though, but this doesn't appear to be one of those cases as such. I only glanced through the article though, admittedly.
6 posted on 04/25/2002 10:04:28 AM PDT by WyldKard
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To: Korth
Lincoln established the supremacy of federal authority over the rights of the state governments. FDR established the supremacy of federal authority over the rights of the individual.
8 posted on 04/25/2002 10:08:30 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: Korth
Lew Rockwell is off his rocker, 99.9% of the time. I may not like Alan Keyes, but truth be told, he was never a liberal, hence he isn't a neo-con. Of course, when it comes to the truth, Rockwell is a seriously lost soul.
13 posted on 04/25/2002 10:17:13 AM PDT by Reagan Man
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To: Korth
Lotsa bilge and falsehoods in that essay. Same old misunderstandings of the 10th amendment and incorrect history wrt State's Rights. Same falsehoods wrt Lincoln. Crap in short and more crap.
15 posted on 04/25/2002 10:21:43 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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To: Korth
They are comfortable with Big Government, as long as it fights their wars and enacts their social and regulatory programs.

Bingo!

26 posted on 04/25/2002 10:36:03 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Korth
The "war on drugs" that so many conservatives blindly subscribe to is pure liberalism diguised as conservatism. It has consumed billions.....I mean $$$$BILLIONS! Those are dollars taken from citizens in taxes. And that money is handed to law enforcement, prisons, and the legal system. Year after year. And for what??! Have they stopped the supply or consumption of drugs. NO! What a freaking waste. Well folks, that is the definition of liberalism. Tax the people...line a few folks pockets...and get nothing done for society. But the real damage is to our Constitution! And if I'm not mistaken, those who would love to see our Constitution destroyed would tend to be liberals. Not conservatives.
30 posted on 04/25/2002 10:42:19 AM PDT by hove
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To: Yall; Korth;
Miller interestingly quotes historian David Musto as having observed that until the late nineteenth century, the federal government laid no claim to such regulatory powers; such things were the responsibilities of the states, or the people. Miller is correct to invoke the Tenth Amendment in his argument, but this Amendment was all but destroyed during the War Between the States, after which federal political hegemony was established.

Miller also correctly observed that the "progressive era" federal regulatory agencies "were profoundly unconstitutional and un-American" and are "the elder bedmates of the coercive, expansionist politics of modern-day liberalism." Exactly. This, however, is exactly the position that neo-conservatives like Alan Keyes hold.

--------------------------------------

I agree with the author about Keyes & the neo-cons.

But his underlined irrationalities about Lincoln and the 'destruction of the 10th', mystify me.

The 14th was ratifyed in 1868 to make it clear that state governments must not ignore individual rights in writing law.
-- It did not remove any 10th amendment powers from states, as the author alleges in his 'hegemony' hype. --
Amusingly, the author admits in the previous undeline that Musto observed that this federalism did not occur till very 'late' in the 1800's, which is correct.

-- Thus, -- Lincoln & the 14th had little/nothing to do with the death of states 'rights'.
The loss of these state powers had everything to do with the rise of national political parties that embraced socialist principles at both state and federal levels.

The tenth is full functional, -- but states political regimes refuse to use it to fight the feds. -- Nothing is wrong with the constitution [that can't be easily fixed]. Everything is wrong about our political process.

34 posted on 04/25/2002 10:51:50 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: Korth
More proof that di Lorenzo is a loony. If you are going to write an article about the drug war, why not make the best case you can on that issue and not drag in all the antebellum baggage that will only convince those who are already convinced and will turn off most other readers? Di Lorenzo simply throws everything he has in his files on the page, mangling a complicated paper by Madison in the process. Unfortunately it doesn't add up to proving what he thinks it does, let alone the idea of state secession at will that he defended in his book.

Every President and Congress since Washington has made use of the "implied powers" of the federal government under the Constitution. That very much includes "strict constructionists" like Jefferson and Madison. That is part of the logic of the Constitution, and is the reason why the Constitution endured and the Articles of Confederation failed.

There may be constitutional questions about the drug war, but with the growth of interstate commerce after the Civil War, it was inevitable that the federal government would use its constitutional powers to regulate interstate trade. Whether this includes aspects of the drug war is another question, but for good or ill it does provide a constitutional mandate for much of what the government does today.

The idea that the Civil War was fought between Federalists and Anti-Federalists or centralizers and state's rightists or statists and libertarians is superficially appealing. It would come as a surprise to those Wisconsans who asserted state authority against the fugitive slave acts, though, and to those Southerners who used federal coercion to get their way on this issue. It would also trouble those who witnessed the conflicts between the state governments and the Confederate government or the willingness of both to use repressive measures to preserve their power.

Similarly, the speed with which Southerners got on the progressive bandwagon in the twentieth century to use federal taxes for their own benefit makes one skeptical of the whole idea of a fixed libertarian vs. statist, South vs. North polarity in American political history. As do the claims of "state's rightists" for absolute state sovereignty and their willingness to bring all the power of the state down on those who are in their power. State's rights is another form of statism and it can be ferocious to those in its grasp.

The idea of a federal union in which we all have certain basic rights and freedom of movement from state to state was more a Lincolnian than an anti-Lincolnian idea. The alternative would have meant more power for state government, no guarantees of basic rights, and less mobility across state lines.

58 posted on 04/25/2002 12:33:26 PM PDT by x
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To: Korth
Being anti drug legalization is evidence of being a Neo-con? Keyes is a Neo-Con? Resisting giving slave states a free exit to succor their peculiar institution is being Neo-Con? Is there anyone from this rag who isn't a kook?
66 posted on 04/25/2002 1:17:33 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Korth; all
As I read the Rockwellian types, I have to ask the question: So what?

"Neo-con." Whoopie! Count me in among that lot. I, rdb3, am a "neo-con." Yes, I was once a Democrat. Then I grew up.

So, for the Rockwellian types and their supporters, I ask again, "So, what?"

Want me and others who matured into the political Right to vanish? Is that it?

My being a "neo-con"servative not good enough for ya? Hmmm?

So what?

What's accomplished by pieces like this? What's accomplished by incessantly criticizing "neo-cons," hmmm? What's accomplished by beating up on those who "saw the light?"

So what?

We have Leftists who are in full control of our school boards nationwide, yet Rockwellian types and their supporters attack "neo-cons."

We have Leftists who are in complete control of 99.9% of our colleges and universities, yet Rockwellian types and their supporters attack "neo-cons."

We have Leftists who are in complete control of our lexicon and are an absolute perversion to our American culture, yet Rockwellian types and their supporters attack "neo-cons." Notice that I didn't say "Southern" culture, or "Midwestern" culture, or even "Northeast/East Coast" culture. I said AMERICAN culture. The Left is running a full-court press on it, yet some find it more profitable to attack those like me than those who are filling your children's minds with their nonsense be it on TV, the movies, or in the classroom.

How does the attack on so-called "neo-cons" bring others into the fold? For Rockwellian types, if you are a former Democrat, you need not apply.

What will it take for paleoconservatives to realize that, since the Constitution is NOT being taught to our children (and hasn't been taught in quite a while), that just saying the word "Constitution" is not magic? When will paleoconservatives realize that the Constitution must be brought down to the personal level? By this I mean, how are you going to go about demonstrating to the people how the Constitution applies to them personally? What will it take for you to realize that words on a piece of paper are dead without people giving it the correct meaning so that it might live in the hearts and minds of the people?

I won't hold my breath for an answer.

In the meantime, I'll just suffer through the slings and arrows of the paleocons. Shame on those like me for ever had been a Democrat, even though we see the light.

112 posted on 04/25/2002 2:33:31 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: Korth
BUMP
114 posted on 04/25/2002 2:35:30 PM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Korth
Legalize dope, enhance nanny government.

It's the socialist-libertarian way!

117 posted on 04/25/2002 2:44:48 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Korth
I'm ready to go ... where the hell is Tucker Carlson with his bugle?
165 posted on 04/26/2002 4:10:15 AM PDT by ArneFufkin
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*Meaty thread bump*
206 posted on 04/26/2002 9:33:37 PM PDT by Yardstick
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