Posted on 04/24/2002 2:21:53 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
HAVANA, Apr 23, 2002 (AP WorldStream via COMTEX) -- Fidel Castro, in his worst fight with Mexico in decades, defended recording a telephone call with Mexico's president - which he later made public - saying a head of state needs to keep records such as phone conversations in the interest of history.
Castro's defense came as Uruguay announced it would cut ties with the Caribbean nation because of insults against President Jorge Batlle. Castro on Monday called him an "abject Judas" for sponsoring a human rights vote against Cuba.
Word of Uruguay's decision was announced Tuesday night as Castro spoke on state television about his current diplomatic problems with Mexico. After reading aloud a news story about the diplomatic break, Castro on Tuesday characterized Batlle as a "lackey" for the United States.
As for the phone call with Mexican President Vicente Fox that Castro aired on Monday, "A conversation between two heads of state is not a secret confession," he said of the private call about his participation at a U.N. summit last month.
Leaders who do not leave behind such records of their time in power "are irresponsible," Castro said. "These are political conversations that interest the whole world."
After Castro aired his conversation with Fox to a roomful of international journalists and Cuban officials, the Mexican government complained that it was "unacceptable" for Cuban authorities to violate the privacy of the exchange.
Castro said he reluctantly made the conversation public to prove his assertion that Mexican authorities discouraged him from attending a U.N. poverty summit in the northern Mexican city of Monterrey, then had him leave early, so his visit there would not coincide with that of U.S. President George W. Bush.
"The government of Mexico does not record nor does it divulge the content of conversations, much less those previously agreed upon as private," the Mexican government said in a statement.
Castro said that while Cuba records the important conversations of its own leaders for posterity, it does not record the conversations of other heads of state with each other - as he maintained the United States does.
"There is not a single conversation of mine that the Americans don't have recorded," Castro said. "The Americans even record our conversations in the car.
Wiretapping has a long history in Mexico, where it was commonly used during the 71-year rule of the Institutional Revolutionary Party. The government's domestic intelligence agencies often used it to collect information about political opponents.
Fox, the first opposition candidate to win the Mexican presidency, had his own phones tapped by unknown individuals during his 2000 campaign. Some tapes were later made public after the elections.
By ANITA SNOW Associated Press Writer
Fox, the first opposition candidate to win the Mexican presidency, had his own phones tapped by unknown individuals during his 2000 campaign. Some tapes were later made public after the elections.
Reminds me of the DNC using that Floriduh couple to record Newt Gingrich's private phone calls.
Fidel.- Yes, Mr. President. How are you?
Fox.- How are you, Fidel?
Fidel.- Well, very well, thank you. And, how are you?
Fox.- What a pleasure! Listen, Fidel, I’m calling you on this surprise I had a couple of hours ago, when I learned that you intend to visit with us in Mexico.
FOX - First of all, I’d like to make this a private conversation between you and I. Do you agree?
Fidel.- Yes, I do. I hope you have received my letter, haven’t you? I sent it…
Fox.- Yes, I did, a couple of hours ago, that’s why I’m calling you now.
Fidel.- Oh! Good. I had been told that you go to bed early, so we sent the letter early.
Fox.- Yes, I go to bed early, but this has kept me awake.
Fidel.- Don’t you say it!
Fox.- No, really, the fact is I got it… It’s 10:00 pm here, I got it at 8:00 pm, and we were just here having dinner with Khofi Annan.
Fidel.- Oh!
Fox.- But, look Fidel, I’m talking to you first as a friend.
Fidel.- Yes, you are talking to me first as a friend. I hope you will not tell me not to go.
Fox.- (He laughs) Well, let’s see. Let me explain it and let’s see what you think.
Fidel.- I’m listening, but I’m telling you before you speak. Very well.
Fox.- What?
Fidel.- That I’m listening, but I’m telling you before you speak.
Fox.- OK, listen to me first. Listen first.
Fidel.- Yes.
Fox.- Yes, as a friend, the truth is that this surprise, at the last minute, creates many problems for me.
Fidel.- Why is that?
Fox.- Security problems, attention problems.
Fidel.- Well, never mind that, Mr. President. It seems that you don’t know me.
Fox.- You are not concerned about that. (?)
Fidel.- No, I assure you; and I’m not taking 800 men with me like Mr. Bush.
Fox.- But, friends do not simply let you know at the last minute that they are coming.
Fidel.- Yes, but I’m taking risks like no other, and you know that well.
Fox.- Well, but you can trust a friend and you could have told me before that you intended to come. That would have been better for both. But, look, I realize that it is your absolute right. However, perhaps, if it were possible for you to help me, as a friend.
Fidel.- Yes. Tell me what can I do for you, except that.
Fox.- Well, “what can you do for me, except that?”
Fidel.- Yes. How? What should I do? I’m willing to take any risks, I don’t mind the risks. (The situation was growing more serious; neither the neighbor in the North, nor the host country really wished to have me there.)
Fox.- Let me see…
Fidel.- But you understand that it would cause a world scandal, I mean, if I’m now told not to go.
Fox.- But, what’s the need to make a world scandal if I’m talking to you as a friend?
Fidel.- Listen, it’s because you’re the President of the country and if you’re the host and you prevent me from going there, I’d have no choice but to publish my speech tomorrow.
Fox.- Yes, yes, you’re right. It’s your right, absolutely, to do so. But, let me make you an offer.
Fidel.- Yes.
Fox.- Yes?
Fidel.- I’m listening.
Fox.- I don’t know when it is you intend to come because you have not said that, but my offer would be that you come on Thursday.
Fidel.- Let’s see, tell me exactly, I’m willing to compromise on this. Let’s see, what day is today? Tuesday. At what time do you want me there on Thursday?
Fox.- Because you…I mean, Cuba has its turn to speak at the Plenary on Thursday.
Fidel.- Yes, yes. The exact time there, there it is…it should be Thursday…
Fox.- About 1:00 pm.
Fidel.- No, on Thursday I should take part in a roundtable and I should present my speech in the morning.
Fox.- Because your speech would be in the morning, close to 1:00 pm.
Fidel.- More or less. I’ll help you in everything, I won’t give you any trouble, and I won’t even attend dinners, not even the meeting… Well, we’d need to talk about that meeting…
Fox.- There you go, let me finish.
Fidel.- Yes.
Fox.- You could come on Thursday, take part in the session and present your speech, as Cuba’s reserved turn would be around 1:00 pm. After that there would be a lunch offered by the state governor to the visiting Heads of State. I’m even offering you, inviting you, to attend that lunch, even to sit by me, and that after this event -- you have already made your speech -- that you go back, thus…
Fidel.- Back to Cuba.
Fox.- Well, no, perhaps you could find…
Fidel.- Where to? A hotel? Tell me.
Fox.- Back to Cuba, or wherever you chose to go.
Fidel.- Right.
Fox.- That way I’d be free on Friday -- and that’s my request to you -- so that you create no complications to me on Friday.
Fidel.- So, you don’t want for me to complicate matters for you on Friday. Very well, but apparently you did not read a line in my letter where I said that I’m coming in a constructive spirit to cooperate to the success of the conference.
Fox.- Yes, I did read that line.
Fidel.- If my words were not clear… I understand the other things that we won’t discuss, and what could happen. I almost guessed that you’d be calling to say something like this. I tell you very candidly: I’m willing to cooperate with you. I’m willing to cooperate with you and do as you are asking.
Fox.- We can do it this way.
Fidel.- Yes, would you repeat it, please?
Fox.- Let’s see. You’d be arriving Thursday morning, at any time you chose.
Fidel.- Yes, Thursday morning, and I make my speech.
Fox.- Yes, you make your speech to the plenary session; you take part in the Heads of States’ lunch, where I’m inviting you even to sit by me.
Fidel.- Very well, thank you.
Fox.- And in the afternoon, you could leave at any time you chose.
Fidel.- Yes, very well. Let me look at the time, we have a one-hour difference, the time at which I’d have to be moving.
Fox.- We have a one-hour difference.
Fidel.- If I had to arrive a little earlier; let’s see, because I know now where I cause the greater damage, (he laughs) but I could be there at dawn.
Fox.- On Thursday?
Fidel.- Because the time [to speak] is 1:00 pm, and our people there were negotiating my turn, then I could speak before that. Perhaps, but I’m prepared for that time approximately, since there are 30 speakers before me. This last-minute decision has hurt me too, I admit it, because I really made it at the last minute. You were reproaching me about what a friend should or should not say. But I have two things: firstly, I have to think of the risks; secondly, I had not made my decision. That’s the truth.
Fox.- Yes, yes, I understand, I understand.
Fidel.- But, at a given moment, I decided it was convenient, as I have explained to you in my letter. I’d beg you that, when you have a chance, you read it again.
Fox.- I have it here with me.
Fidel.- And the Secretary General, is he there near you, are you dinning with him?
Fox.- He left about 15 minutes ago. He went to his hotel and tomorrow he’ll go to Monterrey.
Fidel.- What a pity that I cannot listen when he speaks! Because I think he will be speaking at the beginning.
Fox.- Let me see, Fidel, you, you…Yes, I know that…
Fidel.- Well, if you could make arrangements so that I could be the number 10 speaker, if you could get me that turn…
Fox.- Let’s see, wait a second.
Fidel.- Yes.
Fox.- I’ll be speaking on Thursday. The opening ceremony starts at 9:00 am.
Fidel.- At 9:00 am, very well.
Fox.- I assume that the Secretary General would be speaking and then I’d be speaking too.
Fidel.- Yes, I’d like to listen to his speech because it was him that invited me.
Fox.- There is no problem in your coming for that.
Fidel.- You are the President of the host country; it was not the United States, it was Mexico.
Fox.- There is no problem in your coming for that, arriving early and being there for the opening ceremony, from 9:00 am that we begin, when he will be speaking and I will be speaking, too. In fact, your turn will be about the 10th.
Fidel.- No, my turn is number 30, but if you can get me number 10, that is, following the main speakers --I think Chávez will be one of them as chairman of the G-77-- and some others; if you can get me a 10 or 12…
Fox.- But, do you want me to change your turn, that is, to have you before 1:00 pm?
Fidel.- Talk to Khofi, talk to Khofi and raise your problem with him, he’ll understand, the world has masters and this is very serious.
Fox.- I can talk to Khofi Annan. (He laughs)
Fidel.- Talk to Khofi Annan. (he laughs) Do you understand?
Fox.- Yes, yes, I can talk to him, of course.
Fidel.- Then, I can do as it pleases you; I go there and I speak. Perhaps, it’d be better for me to get there by midnight or so, to get some sleep and go there.
Fox.- You simply let me know at what time you’re coming. I even have a residence, a place for you to come if you arrive too early.
Fidel.- Well, there is that small hotel, and a few rooms have been booked, because I had not decided to go.
Fox.- Yes, the problem is that there are no rooms, that’s the problem, there are no rooms.
Fidel.- No, but our delegation has 20 rooms there and some of our people could go to other places, houses that rent rooms.
Fox.- Yes, we could handle it. You have friends there in Monterrey who would take you in at any time. That’s not a problem. You must arrive in the early morning hours.
Fidel.- Look, I can do better. Must I arrive in the early morning hours?
Fox.- Yes. What is it that you call the early morning hours, 5:00 or 6:00 am?
Fidel.- No. Look, I’d rather get there about 10:00 pm the previous night, approximately.
Fox.- Oh! I see, you’d arrive Wednesday night.
Fidel.- Yes, I would do so quietly. We would meet there in the morning, people would see me there in the morning.
Fox.- Try to make it later, and let’s see how we manage; I mean, later in the night or in the first hours of next morning.
Fidel.- All right.
Fox.- You may arrive, get your accommodations and take part from 9:00 am.
Fidel.- I accommodate myself and I get there at 8:30. Listen.
Fox.- Yes, exactly, exactly.
Fidel.- Then you can assure me that you talk to Khofi Annan and you explain the problems to him, otherwise I’d have to talk and explain to him because I’ve been invited by the United Nations.
Fox.- No, there is no problem with that. I…
Fidel.- You were really kind to send that invitation as a host, but it is the United Nations that invites me. I told you that here, it was the first thing I told you when we began our talks here, that I had that invitation.
Fox.- Yes, you’re right. Then, let’s go on thinking like that. Then we finish…
Fidel.- Right. Then, I do as you say to please you; I leave earlier. I really want to be back here soon. I have a lot of things to do and I’m very enthusiastic about them.
Fox.- Fidel, can I ask you another favor?
Fidel.- I’m listening.
Fox.- That while you are here, it would be very good for me if there were no statements on the Embassy issue, or the Mexico-Cuba relations, I mean, that experience we went through a few days ago.
Fidel.- There is no need for me to make statements there.
Fox.- That’s good!
Fidel.- Tell me, what else can I do for you?
Fox.- Well, basically, not to attack the United States or President Bush, but rather to limit ourselves to…
Fidel.- Listen, Mr. President, I’m a person who’s been in politics for about 43 years, and I know what I should do and what I should not do. You don’t need to have any doubts that I know how to tell the truth politely and with the proper elegance. You don’t need to fear because I won’t be dropping any bombs there. The truth is that I disagree with that Consensus that has been proposed over there. But, I’ll limit myself to present my basic ideas and do so with all due respect. I will not use that forum to make a stir. I’ll go there to speak the truth, or I could not go and say it from here tomorrow morning; for me that’s not…
Fox.- That is precisely what you offer me in your letter: a constructive participation, to make a real contribution to the debates, to the solution of the problems we all have in the world.
Fidel.- Yes, Mr. President, you should also bear in mind that when I make one of such trips I do so at great risk.
Fox.- Yes, I understand that.
Fidel.- You should know. And I don’t do it, I mean, be absent from there because I’d be ashamed after I have made the decision to go. I have not gone to other places; I did not go to the Summit in Peru, but I have a much higher concept of the importance of this conference and a much higher concept of Mexico. It seemed to me that I’d be really hurting you and the Mexicans if I did not go. I won’t be going there to make a stir, or organize demonstrations, or anything like it. I bear in mind that you are the President of that country and that, regardless of my rights, I should take your wishes into account. I’m glad that you have thought of a decent formula, that I may be there on time and listen to the Secretary General of the United Nations. And, if you could enlist the assistance of the Secretary General to ensure that I speak earlier --that is, not be there for long, the longer I stay the…-- I mean, a turn to speak between number 10 and 15, after the list of speakers begins to roll, aside from your speech. We could speak to our comrades there, give them instructions --they have already been instructed to try to change to an earlier turn-- then, I’d be free to avoid causing you any more trouble.
Fox.- Yes. Listen, Fidel. Anyway, there is still that invitation for you to accompany me to that lunch; that would be about 1:00 or 1:30 pm, then, after lunch you could leave.
Fidel.- Provided you do not offer me turkey with chili sauce and lots of food because I don’t like to travel by plane on a full stomach…
Fox.- No, we have goat, which is very tasty.Fidel.- You are offering goat?
Fox.- Yes, sir, excellent.
Fidel.- Good, very good.Fox.- Then, can we say we agree on that?
Fidel.- Yes, we agree on that, and we are friends; friends and gentlemen.
Fox.- Yes, I really appreciate it and I only need to know at what time you are arriving to welcome you and take you to your accommodations.
Fidel.- I’ll tell you the time. Well, if you like I can even get there earlier and that way we can save time. At what time are you going to bed tomorrow?
Fox.- Tomorrow?
Fidel.- Yes.
Fox.- What is it tomorrow? Wednesday? Tomorrow I’ll go to bed early, as a good rancher.
Fidel.- As a good rancher. I’m quite the opposite, I usually stay up until very late. Tell me, what would be the best time for you?
Fox.- Look, as you are saying 10:00, 11:00, 12:00 midnight, for you to accommodate, get some rest, and be there in the morning.
Fidel.- Very well, I agree.
Fox.- Then, let the embassy give me the exact time to welcome you properly.
Fidel.- Yes, tomorrow you’ll know the exact time.
Fox.- We’ll talk about it with the Embassy.
Fidel.- Yes, as always, I deeply appreciate that deference, that honor, if you go there; I think that would help much.
Fox.- You attend that lunch with me and from there you go back.
Fidel.- I take your orders, and from there I come back.
Fox.- Fidel, I really appreciate it.
Fidel.- Very well, President.
Fox.- This way everything will be all right.
Fidel.- I think so, and I thank you.
Fox.- Well, I agree, and have a good night.
Fidel.- …for your deference and for finding an honorable and acceptable formula.
Fox.- Yes, I think it is, and I appreciate it.
Fidel.- Very well, then, I wish you a great success.
Fox.- Good night.
Fidel.- Good night.
Fox put in a corner after his plea to Castro [Full Text] MEXICO CITY - Opposition lawmakers Tuesday demanded that President Vicente Fox explain himself to the nation a day after Cuban leader Fidel Castro released a secretly recorded telephone conversation in which the Mexican president asked him to make a hasty exit from the country. Castro embarrassed Fox Monday night by summoning foreign journalists to a news conference in Havana, where he released a taped conversation between the two leaders on March 19. In it, Fox tried to get Castro, who gave 24 hours' notice that he would join other world leaders at last month's United Nations development summit in Monterrey, to keep his visit short. Fox also asked Castro not to criticize the United States or President Bush.
Monday night, Castro accused Fox of caving in to U.S. pressure. The harsh words follow last Friday's vote at the U.N. Human Rights Commission in Geneva, where Mexico was one of eight Latin American countries that supported a resolution calling for greater political and human rights in Cuba.
In news conferences and interviews last month, both Fox and Mexican Foreign Secretary Jorge Castañeda denied pressuring Castro. Pro-Cuba opposition legislators in Mexico tried for weeks to make Castañeda testify before congress about Castro's hasty, huffy exit from the conference. Now they want Fox to explain before congress or on national television. ''This demonstrates that President Fox lied to the Mexican people. How can we support a president who lies?'' said Congressman Sergio Acosta Salazar of the leftist Party of the Democratic Revolution, the second-ranking member of the Foreign Relations Commission in the lower house of Mexico's National Congress.
For more than seven decades before Fox, Mexico was run by the left-leaning Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI, in its Spanish initials), which grew out of the Mexican revolution of 1910-17. Acosta's leftist party splintered off from the PRI, and both parties are assailing the conservative Fox. Sen. Silvia Hernandez, a PRI leader and the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Commission, also called on Fox to explain himself. PRI governments stayed out of Cuba's domestic affairs, and in return Castro did not fund or support leftist revolutionaries in Mexico -- the country from which he launched his own rise to power -- as he did elsewhere in Latin America.
On Tuesday afternoon, the Fox administration began firing back. Foreign Secretary Castañeda denied that he or Fox had lied and said Castro was not pressured. What was asked of Castro, he said, was also asked of the United States: that both countries put aside their rivalries to avoid hijacking the development summit.
In a radio interview, Castañeda suggested that Castro feels threatened at home by his growing isolation in Latin America and by growing global support for universal principles of human rights. ''In effect the isolation of the government of Fidel Castro grows greater every day,'' Castañeda said. ``This resolution in Geneva came not from the Czechs but from Latin Americans.''
Throughout much of Castro's four-decade rule, the United States has sponsored U.N. resolutions condemning the lack of democratic rights in Cuba. In recent years, former communist countries such as the Czech Republic and Poland have sponsored the resolutions, but this year Uruguay took the lead and was backed by six other Latin American nations on the Human Rights Commission; Venezuela voted against and Brazil and Ecuador abstained. Even Chile, led by Socialist Ricardo Lagos, joined the call for democracy in Cuba.
''Castro has pretty much burned all his bridges,'' said Ana Maria Salazar, a former Clinton White House official now teaching at the Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico (ITAM) in Mexico City. News assistant Fernando Moreno in Mexico City contributed to this report. [End
Yup.
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