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Brutal, yes. Massacre, no
The Guardian - Observer ^ | April 21, 2002 | Peter Beaumont

Posted on 04/20/2002 9:05:22 PM PDT by scratchgolfer

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To: McGavin999;scratchgolfer
The engineer Al-Ahram Weekly (Egyptian) 18 - 24 April 2002 | Jonathan Cook

The 'engineer' An engineer of the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians during the invasion of the West Bank spoke to Jonathan Cook about the days of defiance in Jenin.

Omar sits restlessly on his chair in the safe-house. He is an "engineer" from Jenin refugee camp: one of the revered bomb-makers from the City of the Bombers. To the Israelis he is the most lethal, and wanted, of terrorists. The poison from the Cobra's head.

We meet late last Thursday, hours after he escaped from the camp as Israeli soldiers took control of the area. We are still close enough to Jenin that we can see the constant stream of illumination flares, three launched by the army at a time, that light up the soldiers' dark work in the city below.

But Omar will not be staying here long. He is going to ground deeper in the West Bank before regrouping with his comrades from Jenin.

There may not be too many. Even according to Israeli army sources, at least a hundred fighters were killed and hundreds more wounded and captured during the eight days of savage fighting.

Omar will not give his name or age. He is slim, in his mid-20s, with a closely cropped beard. He is a member of Islamic Jihad, but says in Jenin all the factions were loyal to only one cause: liberation or death.

Visible beneath a blue bomber jacket is the tightly bandaged stump of his right arm, the end of which he rubs distractedly.

How did he lose it? During the previous invasion of Jenin by the Israeli army several weeks ago, he says. He was hiding with only his arm visible as he tried to throw a 'kwa' -- a home-made pipe bomb -- at a tank. Shrapnel from a shell severed it, he says.

But as a bomb-maker, one of the most highly respected positions in the Palestinian resistance, he could equally have lost the arm in less glorious circumstances: in one of the explosions that are a professional hazard of his job.

Omar admits he is one of only a few dozen fighters not to emerge either dead or in plastic handcuffs from the fiercest battle waged by the Palestinians during the Israeli army's invasion of the West Bank.

Of his group of 30 gunmen, only four escaped from the camp on Wednesday, after the Palestinian arsenal ran dry. Most of the others were shot dead.

"Of all the fighters in the West Bank we were the best prepared," he says. "We started working on our plan: to trap the invading soldiers and blow them up from the moment the Israeli tanks pulled out of Jenin last month."

Omar and other "engineers" made hundreds of explosive devices and carefully chose their locations.

"We had more than 50 houses booby-trapped around the camp. We chose old and empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we knew the soldiers would search for them," he said.

"We cut off lengths of mains water pipes and packed them with explosives and nails. Then we placed them about four metres apart throughout the houses -- in cupboards, under sinks, in sofas."

The fighters hoped to disable the Israeli army's tanks with much more powerful bombs placed inside rubbish bins on the street. More explosives were hidden inside the cars of Jenin's most wanted men.

Connected by wires, the bombs were set off remotely, triggered by the current from a car battery.

According to Omar, everyone in the camp, including the children, knew where the explosives were located so that there was no danger of civilians being injured. It was the one weakness in the plan.

"We were betrayed by the spies among us," he says. The wires to more than a third of the bombs were cut by soldiers accompanied by collaborators. "If it hadn't been for the spies, the soldiers would never have been able to enter the camp. Once they penetrated the camp, it was much harder to defend."

And what about the explosion and ambush last Tuesday which killed 13 soldiers?

"They were lured there," he says. "We all stopped shooting and the women went out to tell the soldiers that we had run out of bullets and were leaving." The women alerted the fighters as the soldiers reached the booby- trapped area.

"When the senior officers realised what had happened, they shouted through megaphones that they wanted an immediate cease-fire. We let them approach to retrieve the men and then opened fire.

"Some of the soldiers were so shocked and frightened that they mistakenly ran towards us."

On Wednesday, after the fighters ran out of ammunition, he says, armoured vehicles roamed the streets calling out to them in Arabic: "You are finished and can't win against us. We are more powerful than you. Surrender."

He saw one fighter who went down to the street with his hands in the air shot dead by snipers. He chose to flee the camp, although he will not say how.

Using his left arm, Omar shot a revolver during the gun battles.

With a new intensity on his face, he leans forward to ask a question. Do I think the doctors will be able to give him a strong new artificial arm with fingers he can operate. I don't know, I say. Why?

"Because I want to be able to hold a heavy rifle again. That way I can kill more Israeli soldiers. It's that or become a suicide bomber."

21 posted on 04/20/2002 10:05:38 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
Is that a movie still of Robert Blake in the colorized version of Our Gang Meets the Jihadi Knights?
22 posted on 04/20/2002 10:10:03 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: MJY1288
Very rarely. And to be balanced, when they show photos of the aftermath of Jenin, they should show the last months bomb carnage in Israel, and mention why the IDF went into Jenin.
23 posted on 04/20/2002 10:10:45 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
I haven't seen aerial photos but only the oft pictured limited area where the firefights took place. In the distance you can see vast areas untouched. I'd like to post up some pictures of what the Russians did (and are doing) in Chechnya and what they did in their Soviet incarnation in Afghanistan. Of course Russia can't be picked on with the same ferocity of propaganda, calls for International tribunals, etc. because of her size, military power, etc. The lesson: the global half-wits, EUrotrash, U.N. the Arab Islamics are hypocrites and bullies.
24 posted on 04/20/2002 10:11:22 PM PDT by Lent
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To: vbmoneyspender
That does look like Baby Robert Blake, doesn't it?

He was perfect for "In Cold Blood". Just ask his dead wife.

25 posted on 04/20/2002 10:12:01 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
"We had more than 50 houses booby-trapped around the camp. We chose old and empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we knew the soldiers would search for them," he said.

But all the damage to the houses in Jenin were caused by those brutal genocidal Israelis. < /sarcasm >

26 posted on 04/20/2002 10:12:58 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: scratchgolfer
TWICE AS MANY PEOPLE WERE KILLED by government power at Waco, Texas in 1993 as were killed in Jenin last week.

Furthermore, 90% of those killed in Jenin were uniformed fighting men of Islamic Jihad.

At Waco, seventeen of the 80-odd dead on 4-19-93 were children under 8 years of age.

And at Waco, all the dead were intentionally killed. The kids were NOT BYKILL!!!

Where was the Guardian and the weeping Eurotrash THEN? If they want to investigate something, the dead of WACO are crying for justice!

27 posted on 04/20/2002 10:16:02 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: Lent
When the Russians pulverized Grozny with artillery, they had only given the inhabitants a brief warning to get out or else.

I think that about 25% of the dead civilians in Grozny were ethnic Russians, the "left behinds" of the empire with no money and no where to go, who died in the rubble with the rest, thousands of them.

Blasted to bits or buried alive or burned to death by blind Russian arillery fired from 20km away for days on end.

Where was the UN? Where was the 24/7 media coverage?

28 posted on 04/20/2002 10:16:40 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: scratchgolfer
WHERE was this bleeding heart Eurotrash scum, when 3000 Americans were much more brutally murdered on 9-11-01, and they were guilty of nothing, not even of opposing Islam!

Many of them were liberals, who would gladly have died for political correctness. Looks like maybe they DID!

29 posted on 04/20/2002 10:19:43 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: Travis McGee
"when they show photos of the aftermath of Jenin, they should show the last months bomb carnage in Israel, and mention why the IDF went into Jenin."

Agreed, But as we all know, this is not over yet, and when the truth about Jenin is told, it will show that the Israeli soldiers did not massacre innocent people and Arafat will be exposed for the terrorist he is.

Lots of people want president Bush to label Arafat a terrorist from day one. but sometimes it's better to let the facts come out in the light of day and allow the world to see for themselves rather than making a statement that doesn't paint quite as clear a picture as cold hard facts. Especially since Clinton entertained Arafat at the White House 17 times while he was in office. The press would say that the President has refused to get involved. Sometimes it's better to just sit back and be quiet while the truth is unfolded.

30 posted on 04/20/2002 10:22:51 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: MJY1288
I hope it plays out that way.

Disgusting to see that our former disgraced ex-prez had Arafat to the Whitehouse more times than any other foreign "leader" (sic), and saw Monica more times than the director of the CIA, who could not get an appt to see him.

31 posted on 04/20/2002 10:26:11 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
"Disgusting to see that our former disgraced ex-prez had Arafat to the Whitehouse more times than any other foreign "leader" and saw Monica more times than the director of the CIA"

ROTFLMAO, Another cold hard fact that can't be disputed. LOL

32 posted on 04/20/2002 10:29:44 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: MJY1288
True fact: on the very day that Mohammed Atta was slipping back into the USA on an expired visa, Tenet was celebrating "Gay Appreciation Day" at CIA HQ. I kid you not.
33 posted on 04/20/2002 10:37:46 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
The article you posted is sure a good insight to what the Israeli soldiers had to face when entering Jenin. I am surprised at the low amount of IDF casualties considering what the IDF was up against, when considering they were going into their turf and the amount of time "The Engineer" had to prepare.

Thanks for posting it, Definately the most informative I've read so far.

34 posted on 04/20/2002 10:39:36 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: Travis McGee
"on the very day that Mohammed Atta was slipping back into the USA on an expired visa, Tenet was celebrating "Gay Appreciation Day" at CIA HQ. I kid you not" Do you have any idea why President Bush chose to keep Tenet around?, I often wonder if G.H.W. Bush had something to do with it. I didn't follow Tenet's career under "The Coward" X42, but from what I can figure, no matter who was in there, their hands were tied. My hope is that Tenet is a victim of X42 and not a enabler
35 posted on 04/20/2002 10:44:57 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: scratchgolfer
Yes, incredible how the "...intensity of the devastation..." produced only 30 bodies, isn't it?? Maybe that's because the Israeli army told everyone in the camp to evacuate before they bulldozed.

A reporter on the radio yesterday said the soldiers had removed dishes and personal property for some of the people before the tanks moved in. Of course, the Palestinians said that was "looting".

It will be interesting to see which American news outlets report there was no "massacre". FOX News said it two days ago. Today they reported that the story of Israeli soldiers shooting and killing a Catholic priest leaving the Church of the Nativity was a lie.

36 posted on 04/20/2002 10:51:45 PM PDT by Deb
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To: mrustow
What a profound statement you made.
I saw all day long the so called "massacre" on the news channels. Those buildings were bulldozed, not blown up with planes full of lives and jet fuel.

Since the building codes there are lax to say the least, knocking them down did not require violence.
Also, the people there were aware the Israeli's were coming, they didn't suddenly have two huge aircraft crash into them while they were just busy making a living for their families.

The disgusting media reports about this are just driving me to madness. This was a war, it was declared by Arafat, not the Israeli's, just as our war was declared by Muslim terrorists, not us!
The pictures of our demolished Twin Towers is forever burned inside my brain and my heart, and nothing the Israeli's did there will ever match that horror we must live with inside our minds forever more!

This is without even mentioning the horror the families of flight 93 endured yesterday!
Massacre indeed!

37 posted on 04/20/2002 11:01:21 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: Deb
By any chance did you get to hear the pro-palestinian protestors today in Washington D.C.?

They were claiming that Israel killed over 10,000 innocent civilians in Jenin. They also called for the continuation of the "Global Infatada"(sp). I watched it on C-Span just to see what they had to say. We definately live in a free society, because if I was in charge of the policies of this country, I'm not sure I would allow such distortion of the facts to be spewed to such a large crowd of unwashed minions.

38 posted on 04/20/2002 11:01:27 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: dennisw;veronica;Alouette;TopQuark;Yehuda;BenF;vrwc54;American in Israel;BrooklynGOP...
Bump for more British looney left presstitute backpedalling
39 posted on 04/20/2002 11:08:54 PM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Torie
Re your # 5.... (The Jews) are a well disciplined, effective, and ETHICAL force.

In a British Commons debate Gerald Kaufman, a veteran Labour MP who is Britain's most prominent Jewish parliamentarian, launched a ferocious attack on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, denouncing him as a "war criminal". Kaufman said Sharon had "ordered his troops to use methods of barbarism against the Palestinians". Expressing fear that something dreadful had happened in Jenin, he said: "It is time to remind Sharon that the Star of David belongs to all Jews and not to his repulsive government. His actions are staining the Star of David with blood." With the Israeli army still blocking full access to Jenin it is impossible to establish even a rough body count.

40 posted on 04/20/2002 11:17:55 PM PDT by rmvh
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