[Jurist]

---

Hard to say, exactly what the truth is, but there are indicators which tend to show that there was a massacre.

Sharon has a bloody history of presiding over massacres: Sabra and Shatila in 1982 and Kibya in 1953, where he earned the nick-name 'the Bulldozer.'

Israeli Government and IDF Troop actions: sealing the killing ground off, firing on reporters and ambulances to keep them away, and plowing everything under. Our own government made sure to plow away the wreckage of the OKC and Waco buildings to ensure 'Failure Analysis' and other forensic experts had little to go upon.

The shrill and slavering attitude of Israeli supporters, who attempt to shout down any criticism of Israel's actions. Most tellingly, the attitude they have expressed, which reinforces, rather than allays, the suspicion that this was a massacre in the planning and execution, rather than simple collateral damage.

Ironic, I think, that this happened so close to the date of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

[OldFriend]

All I know is that Amnesty International was SILENT in the aftermath of the WTC massacre.

[Diogenesis]

1) The Palestinians are terrorists who got retaliation.

A single small sample of the egregious terrorism ordered by Suha, Arafat and their supporters:

---

In Paris, protected by France, Arafat's wife and Arafat's daughter live in luxury and comfort
as they send other children to die murdering other innocent children.

Suha [and "Subliminal man"]: "If we (Arafat and me, his trophy wife) had a son
(we only have a daughter) there is no greater honor than to have him be
a suicide bomber."

---

2)The PA uses fraud and lying with the media.

Palestinian - American Media Fraud

In early 1988, reporters were called to el-Mokassed Hospital in Jerusalem
to film a dying Palestinian boy. His Palestinian doctor showed him hooked to life-support tubes,
and claimed the child had been savagely beaten by Israeli troops.
On February 8, 1988, ABC's Peter Jennings introduced the report by saying UN officials
"say that the Israelis have beaten another Palestinian to death in the territories."
NBC and CBS also gave the claims wide publicity.
But the story wasn't true.
According to the child's autopsy and medical records, he died of a cerebral hemorrhage.
He had been sick for more than a year.
Overall, the U.S. networks, Emerson wrote,
"have been complicit in a massive deception about the West Bank conflict.

---

Ashwari, Arafat: "All your media are in bed with us."

[backhoe]

Sharon has a bloody history of presiding over massacres: Sabra and Shatila in 1982

Really now?

-Ariel Sharon & Israel-- The myths of Sabra and Shatilla and the war in Lebanon --

-Online book debunking the "Sharon Terror story--

[xvb]

*Hard to say, exactly what the truth is.

But clearly for you, it's pretty easy to lie. The only massacre I recall reading about was the Passover massacre.

[DB]

The UN "Inspectors" should go visit the Easter Sunday bombing site, the Pizzeria and a few dozen other locations. Then dig through the body parts and rubble to determine if a "war" crime was committed. While they do that maybe they could "investigate" whether their comrade in arms Arafat issued the orders for those attacks.

No, I guess not… That would be counter to their goals…

War is Hell.

[rocketdoc]

It may be high time to review our policy of FMS (Foreign Military Sales) to Isreal if this is true. But then again, we also sell the same items to the UAE, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. They should be very well matched for the inevitable battle that is comming.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

there are indicators which tend to show that there was a massacre.

Well, I know that the Israelis are JEWISH. Do you have any other evidence?

[11th Earl of Mar]

Where is Amnesty International and the UN after the suicide/homocide bombings?

Where is Amnesty International and the UN after Palestinian gunmen kill Israeli civilians?

These people have a predetermined agenda and they will let nothing, including the facts, deter them from it.

[Jurist]

International Herald Tribune Jenin's dead cast a long shadow
Christian Science Monitor

Ten-day ordeal in crucible of Jenin
Peter Beaumont in the West Bank meets eyewitnesses who accuse Israel of massacre
Observer Worldview Sunday April 14, 2002

UK Guardian - Muted criticism in American newspapers
Julian Borger, April 17, 2002
"The Los Angeles Times said in an editorial yesterday that, by barring journalists from Jenin during its offensive, Israel had scored a propaganda own goal. "By aggressively keeping reporters out of the battle zones, in some cases at gunpoint, it has assured rising suspicion and the declining sympathy that invariably accompanies such distrust."

International Herald Tribune - Jenin's camp is a scene of devastation as toll is argued
James Bennet The New York Times, April 15, 2002

WashPost: U.N. envoy calls camp 'horrifying'
- WHAT WE ARE SEEING here is horrifying horrifying scenes of human suffering, said Roed-Larsen, who helped shepherd Palestinians and Israelis toward the 1993 Oslo peace accords. "Israel has lost all moral ground in this conflict."

Australian Broadcasting Corp. - Jenin massacre uncovering
AM - Friday, April 19, 2002 8:08

Two UN envoys tell of 'horrific' devastation in Jenin camp; Annan disturbed by report

CS Monitor - Jenin massacre?
April 18, 2002
Evidence appears to be mounting that a high number of civilians may have been killed when Israeli forces ravaged Jenin. BBC carries the account of Amnesty International observer Derrick Pounder, who toured the West Bank camp:

BBC News - Jenin massacre 'evidence growing'
18 April, 2002
"A British forensic expert who has gained access to the West Bank city of Jenin says evidence points to a massacre by Israeli forces."

"I must say that the evidence before us at the moment doesn't lead us to believe that the allegations are anything other than truthful and that therefore there are large numbers of civilian dead underneath these bulldozed and bombed ruins that we see."

Link 2
Link 3

South China Morning Post - Friday, April 19, 2002
UN envoy calls Jenin 'horrific'
After damning report on conditions in refugee camp, Annan renews call to send in neutral force.

And UN envoy Terje Roed-Larsen has made headlines with his description of Jenin: "What we are seeing here is the large-scale suffering of the whole civilian population here. No military operation could justify the suffering we are seeing here." But The Wall Street Journal gives pause to these breathtaking accounts. Michael Rubin notes that the United Nations Human Rights Commission recently condoned suicide bombing. Whether Jenin will serve as a turning point for both the Israeli and Palestinian cause remains unclear. But it's compelled some serious questions, like this one in Ha'aretz: "What is Israel's strategy?"

Washington Times - Powell leaves Israel after a fruitless visit
Betsy Pisik, April 18, 2002
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell left Israel yesterday, disappointed after six days of intensive shuttle diplomacy: He was unable to negotiate a cease-fire, win Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank or persuade the Palestinian leadership to halt the terror campaign against the Jewish state.

BBC News - Jenin camp situation 'horrendous' - Monday, 15 April, 2002

Washinton Post - Controversy Swirls Over Jenin Battle, April 12, 2002

Boston Herald - Truth of how many died in Palestinian camp is buried under towering heaps of rubble, April 16, 2002

Under the rubble of the refugee camp
Apr 18th 2002 | JENIN REFUGEE CAMP

For five days Israeli helicopters and tanks relentlessly rocketed the square kilometre of the camp to soften the resolve of the 160 Palestinian militiamen holed up within it. Men aged 15 to 45 were ordered by loudspeaker to surrender. Hundreds did so. They were stripped to their underwear, manacled, hooded, beaten and finally dumped in neighbouring villages. Some were used as human shields in front of the army as it pushed its way into people's houses. Women and children were told to flee to Jenin town.

U.K. Guardian - Fresh evidence of Jenin
Phil Reeves in Jerusalem, 18 April 2002
The autopsy on the 38-year-old Palestinian revealed that "he was either shot in the foot, and then in the back, or shot in the back first receiving a fatal wound and his corpse was for some reason shot in the foot," he said. "Whichever order the shots occurred in, it was highly suspicious".
. . .

"Palestinians who survived the long battle in which Israeli helicopters fired rockets and machine-guns into a densely populated area have said the Israeli army committed many atrocities. Witnesses have described people being shot as they surrendered; houses being bulldozed with people inside; the use of human shields; the burial of 32 bodies in a trench, and one case of Israeli soldiers turning on the household gas supply before tossing a stun grenade into a room full of people."

LA TIMES - 'They Forced Me to Hate.'
Conflict: Residents of the Jenin refugee camp speak of the viciousness of the Israeli attack.
T. CHRISTIAN MILLER, April 15, 2002
JENIN, West Bank -- Lukea Tomei could only watch through a peephole as one neighbor was shot, his arms in the air. She cried out when she saw an elderly woman blasted by a sniper.

SMH.AU (Australia) - The guns are silent but cries for help go unheard pmcgeough@smh.com.au, April 18 2002

The smell of death hangs in the air around some buildings still standing and from sections of the rubble. When the Herald tried to take aid workers to a building in which camp residents said there were five dead men, Israeli soldiers ordered us away at gunpoint.

In the rubble at the centre of the camp, reminiscent of pictures of the destruction of Dresden, two human feet protruded from the rubble. And as I spoke to an aid worker in a nearby alley, he pointed out that on the ground, between my feet, was a human foot - which he presumed had been part of a nearby blob that he said was a corpse mangled beyond recognition when it had been run over by an Israeli tank.

AMBULANCES SHOT AT

"The wounded and the sick, as well as the infirm, and expectant mothers, shall be the object of particular protection and respect."
(Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 16)

Human Rights Watch
Israel: Cease Attacking Medical Personnel

(New York, March 9, 2002) -- Human Rights Watch today called on the Israeli government to instruct soldiers to immediately refrain from attacking medical personnel in the West Bank and Gaza. During the past week, at least three ambulances have been fired upon, three ambulance staff have died, and nine other medical personnel have been injured.

Ambulances Denied Access

Israeli Tanks Fire on Ambulance
Link 2

Los Angeles Times - Friday, April 19, 2002
Israel let trapped victims die, U.N. aide says
T. Christian Miller

[wita]

He says the "truth" will come out as it did in Bosnia and Kosovo

LOL! Right, I have reams of "truth" about Bosnia and Kosovo, and the shadow massacres that have not been proven to anyones satisfaction. Just more u n b s. Rotting corpses are not fun, but it's a war zone and the populace was warned over and over and over again.

[Motherhood IS a career]

"...the sight is horrific beyond belief ...

As I've said before, the sight was not nearly as horrific as the WTC bombings. Most of the bodies there couldn't even get dug up, they were so deeply burried. If you ask me, the Palestinians didn't get what they deserved... there should have been more of them killed. Revenge is a bitch, isn't it?

But ever since these terrorist animals have put me and MY family in danger, I've become a little biased. Can you blame me?

And by the way, why is it that journalists never use the same adjectives when a homicide bomber kills a bunch of innocent people. That's just another day in the hood, huh?

A little angry? You bet I am. Terrorists deserve to die, any time, anywhere, any way. (And please don't tell me about the women and children being innocent!) Unless there's direct and devastating retaliation, none of us will be safe.

[MissAmericanPie]

How many does it take for a massacre? Three? Three hundred? Is there an offical U.N. or international massacre number?

[elfman2]

It's people like you who parrot terrorist propaganda who are responsible for the battle deaths in this region. The terrorist wouldn't kill women and children if they couldn't count on people like you to promote them here. You're acting as a terrorist baby killer.

[tet68]

Hard to say what the truth is ? Try this.

GIDEON MEIR: Jenin is a symbol of Palestinian brutalitism. Jenin is a capital of suicide bombers. Jenin, there was a huge infrastructure of terror. We went there to fight the terrorist cells to eliminate terror. There was heavy fighting there and great fighting there. We lost 23 of our boys. Jenin is not a recreation area, Jenin is not a resort.

[iopscusa]

Hey Jurist, how goes the dumpster diving...don't waste our time on these fraudulent sources for atrocities in Jenin. If you happen to stumble onto original and verifiable information, please post it. Otherwise we can find all the Euro-trash, UN-trash and other Pali-trash on our own.

[uncbob]

the suspicion that this was a massacre in the planning and execution, rather than simple collateral damage.
Yeah just like in Kosovo

tell these bozos to fight a war and then come and tell us what it is like

[liberalism=failure]

Starenge , according to this, The Massacre that Wasn't, a few reporters from Washington Post and NYT, two papers not very friendly to the Israel point of view said it was no massacre. And what do we have to contradict this? An obscure foreign radio report.

But I am sure that's WAY WAY more than enough for the hatefilled blame Israel firsters to convict.

And BTW why are the Palestinians never thought to have committed war crimes? They deliberately attack civilians all the time.

Oh silly me, I forgot, they're poor, brown, and Muslim so they can't possibly be held to any standard.

[FITZ]

So would you also have Arabs investigated for war crimes because of the suicide bombings on innocent Israelis? Or because of the WTC and the Pentagon and airplane victims?

[liberalism=failure]

The stench of decaying corpses are all over the place.

Was that the stench of corpses, or just the stench of blame Israel firsters circling like vultures????

Say Jurist when the Palestinians danced in the streets on 9-11 were you dancing with them? Yeah, I bet you were.

[Mr. Peabody]

This why we don't want the ICC. The Left and their EU bootlickers will be using this to pummel the US no matter what the facts are.