Jenin massacre uncovering

Australian Broadcasting Corporation ^ | April 19, 2002 8:08 | LINDA MOTTRAM

[Jurist]

This is a transcript of AM broadcast at 0800 AEST on local radio.

Jenin massacre uncovering

AM - Friday, April 19, 2002 8:08

LINDA MOTTRAM: To the Middle East and as more information comes out of the cities of Jenin and Nablus on the West Bank, it's becoming clear that Israel will have to answer allegations that it's committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during its occupation of the West Bank.

One British forensic expert says the evidence points to a massacre by Israeli forces. That expert is Professor Derrick Pounder from Amnesty International who's inspected the devastation and examined some of the now rotting bodies that are still being pulled from the rubble in Jenin.

He says the truth will come out, just as it did in Bosnia and in Kosovo before and the UN envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen, who has also inspected the Jenin refugee camp says the sight is horrific beyond belief and that Israel's failure to allow in rescue teams was morally repugnant.

The ABC's foreign affairs editor Peter Cave reports from Jerusalem.

PETER CAVE: As he picked his way through a pile of rubble the size of several football fields which was once a crowded ghetto of houses in the refugee camp, Terje Roed-Larsen was clearly taken aback by the scale of the devastation, the bodies and the knowledge that many who died underneath were buried alive for days.

TERJE ROED-LARSEN: I think I can speak for all in the UN delegation here that we are shocked, this is horrifying beyond belief. Just seeing this area looks like as if there's been an earthquake here and the stench of death telling its own story around here.

PETER CAVE: Mr Roed-Larsen has called for a full withdrawal of Israeli forces and a lifting of a curfew in the area, not only to allow the retrieval of the dead but also to provide urgent help for those still alive.

DERRICK POUNDER: The stench of decaying corpses are all over the place. I saw personally an about 12-year-old boy being dug out, his body totally destroyed. I saw two brothers digging out of the rubble their father and their brothers.

There are people all over the place digging with their hands, looking for their relatives and dear ones. It's a horrible scene.

The devastation is nearly total at the heart of the refugee camp and we assess that about 2,000 people are now without roof over their heads. There's lack of food, there's lack of water, the electricity grids are destroyed, the water is cut.

It's a catastrophic situation particularly in the refugee camp but also in the whole town of Jenin.

PETER CAVE: Despite growing international outrage over the apparent massacre, the Israeli Government remains unrepentant. Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meir.

GIDEON MEIR: Jenin is a symbol of Palestinian brutalitism. Jenin is a capital of suicide bombers. Jenin, there was a huge infrastructure of terror. We went there to fight the terrorist cells to eliminate terror. There was heavy fighting there and great fighting there. We lost 23 of our boys. Jenin is not a recreation area, Jenin is not a resort.

LINDA MOTTRAM: Israel's Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meir, that report from Peter Cave in Jerusalem.

[tomahawk]

I'd be surprised if the number of civilians unintentionally killed in Jenin exceeded the number of Israeli civilians intentionally murdered in one "shadid" (a/k/a sh*thead) "martyrdom" suicide/homicide bombing. And civilians who were killed because the Islamic Jihad terrorists kept them there at gunpoint are not Israel's fault.

We have moral illiterates like Jurist, the anti-Semitic Eurotrash, and the maniacal jihadists trying to equate collateral damage with genocide. They will probably also eventually try to bring Bush, Rumsfeld, Putin, and others who are fighting the jihadist terrorists with war crimes.

[FITZ]

So would you also have Arabs investigated for war crimes because of the suicide bombings on innocent Israelis? Or because of the WTC and the Pentagon and airplane victims?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

This Jenin mess will not help Israel's cause.

Nothing in the article you post supports this statement.

[liberalism=failure]

The stench of decaying corpses are all over the place.

Was that the stench of corpses, or just the stench of blame Israel firsters circling like vultures????

Say Jurist when the Palestinians danced in the streets on 9-11 were you dancing with them? Yeah, I bet you were.

[iav2]

It's time to snap out of Arab fantasy Land - Mark Steyn/National Post 4/19/2002

So what do you think of this Israeli "massacre" at the Jenin refugee camp?

In the British accounts of the alleged worst human-rights atrocity since, oh, the Dutch took charge at Srebrenica, you can't help noticing a curious sameness. All reports rely on the same couple of eyewitnesses -- "Kamal Anis, a labourer" (The Times), "A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis" (The Independent), "Kamal Anis, 28" (The Daily Telegraph) -- and the same handful of victims -- "A man named only as Bashar once lived there" (The Telegraph), "the burned remains of a man, Bashar" (The Evening Standard), "Bashir died in agony" (The Times). You'd think with so many thousands massacred there'd be a bigger selection of victims and distraught loved ones, wouldn't you? But apparently not. I do hope Fleet Street's herd-like experts aren't falling for the old native spin machine yet again -- cf. "the mighty Pashtun warrior, humbler of empires"; "the brutal Afghan winter"; etc.

Reporters Back Down From Jenin "Massacre" Reports - Israel National News | 4/18/02

In Jenin, the army has withdrawn its forces from the terrorist stronghold neighborhood in which the fierce battles of the previous two weeks took place. The soldiers continue to surround the area.

After almost two weeks of "Jenin Massacre!" headlines, the world press has been forced to face the truth: There was none. Journalist David Bedein of Israel Resource News Agency reports that since Sunday, when the IDF began allowing reporters into Jenin, the real story has turned out to be somewhat less dramatic than that which some of them had been reporting.

Saudi cleric says peace not possible with Israel (Jews must be terminated) - Reuters 4/19/2002

A top Saudi Arabian Muslim cleric prayed to God on Friday to "terminate" the Jews and urged Arabs and Muslims to abandon efforts to make peace with Israel. "We must say farewell to peace initiatives with these people (Jews)," Sheikh Abdul-Rahman al-Sudais told worshippers at the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Islam's holiest shrine, in a sermon, carried live by several Arabic television and radio networks. He prayed to God to "terminate" the Jews, whom he described as "the scum of humanity... the rats of the world... prophet killers... pigs and monkeys".

[hellinahandcart]

I see the Palie symps have their spamomatic plugged in this morning.

Honey, they've had it plugged in since last weekend.

I keep waiting for one of them to post something more substantive than a report of a smell. Hasn't happened yet, and it's now been three days. The hideously slain bodies of old women, young children, and Golden Retriever puppies should be stacked up like cordwood by now, with the cameras filming away.

[Mr. Peabody]

This why we don't want the ICC. The Left and their EU bootlickers will be using this to pummel the US no matter what the facts are.

[MeekOneGOP]

Gee, I could say that the Palestinian suicide HOMICIDE bombers aren't people but are more like wild animals,
but that would be a high insult to animals everywhere...........

Chairman Arafat
Mark Steyn Link Excerpt:

Just as revealing was the reaction from the European media. In the American press, you read things like: "An observer to the bomb-blast scene described a dead young girl, perhaps 10 or 12, lying on the ground with her eyes open, looking as if she was surprised." For Europe, on the other hand, the main significance of this development was that it was "unhelpful" to the "peace process". Before I'm accused of being more upset about dead Jewish than dead Muslim kids, let me say that I take people at their own estimation: in the Palestinian Authority schools, they teach their children about the glories of martyrdom; indeed, the careers guidance counsellor appears to have little information on alternative employment prospects; at social events, the moppets are dressed up as junior jihadi, with toy detonators and play bombs. It's not that I place less value on Palestinian lives, but that Chairman Arafat and his chums in Hamas do. So does Saddam Hussein, whose government (the subject of an admiring article in this week's Spectator) gives $25,000 to the family of each Palestinian suicide bomber. So does the Arab League, which at last year's summit passed a resolution hailing the "spirit of sacrifice" of the Palestinian "martyrs" and thus licensed Wednesday's massacre. As for the "peace process", those Europeans who, just a few months ago, were urging the Americans to cease operations for Ramadan evidently feel no compunction to demand from Chairman Arafat and his dark subsidiaries any similar "bombing pause" for Passover.

In the days after September 11, we were told that Muslims had great respect for their fellow "people of the book" - ie, Jews and Christians. This ought to be so: after all, the dramatis personae of the Koran include Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, Jesus and the Virgin Mary. It's one thing to believe that the Israelis are occupiers and oppressors and that the Zionist state should not exist. But no Muslim with any understanding of his shared heritage could in good conscience blow up a Passover Seder. It marks a new low in the Palestinians' descent into nihilism - though, as usual, the silence of the imams is deafening. As for the nonchalance of the Europeans, that too should not surprise us: in my experience, the Continent's Christians, practising and nominal, find the ceremonies of Jewish life faintly creepy, notwithstanding that these were also the rituals by which their own Saviour lived.

But this year, when the Christians' solar calendar and the Jews' lunar calendar have coincided and Easter and Passover fall together, it's a safe bet that George W Bush will make the connection. The first time I ever heard him speak, he spoke openly about his faith and about Christ in a way that would be unimaginable for a British politician. He will know all the details - "the baby tried to crawl away, but it died, too".......................

[MeekOneGOP]

Jurist; johniegrad

Before I'm accused of being more upset about dead Jewish than dead Muslim kids, let me say that I take people at their own estimation: in the Palestinian Authority schools, they teach their children about the glories of martyrdom; indeed, the careers guidance counsellor appears to have little information on alternative employment prospects; at social events, the moppets are dressed up as junior jihadi, with toy detonators and play bombs.

[MeekOneGOP]

A LETTER FROM ISRAEL
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/focus/news/658193/posts

[MeekOneGOP]

[MeekOneGOP]

</ end rant>

[Calculus_of_Consent]

A little angry? You bet I am. Terrorists deserve to die, any time, anywhere, any way. (And please don't tell me about the women and children being innocent!) Unless there's direct and devastating retaliation, none of us will be safe.

I used to believe we were better than the terrorists.

My mother used to tell me "Be careful who you pick as your enemies. People often end up acting more like them than their friends."

[Jim Noble]

>>"The Palestinians must be hit and it must be very painful. We must cause them losses, victims, so that they feel the heavy price" Ariel Sharon, Israeli Prime Minister<<

And you think this is bad?

Sounds like Sharon knows what the hell he's supposed to do, I'd say.

[Thane_Banquo]

In order to believe there was an actual massacre in which unarmed civilians were killed, you'd have to believe that the Palestinian Authority is telling the truth. The reports of a "massacre" come from the PA, and they have a history of simply making things up.

[JZoback]

These sort of people don't care about, nor do they follow any amount of laws which are passed.

Whether the murderer is successful or not depends greatly upon whether there are armed citizens to stop his rampage. In the vast majority of cases, the high body counts come from those states or locations where gun laws have stripped the law-abiding citizen of their only means of defense.

Indeed, even if insane or under the influence of drugs, these shooters specifically target undefended places. Those who foolishly try to rob a bar which happens to be a plain-clothes police hang-out only get mentioned in 'dumbest criminal' columns. Why is that?

Look familiar? You wrote them.

Change a few words and it can easily apply it to the situation in the Middle East.

Are you a both a hypocrite and Jew hater?

[philo]

Jurist=Robert Fisk

[dennisw]

Will you be back to apologize when your claim of massacre is shown to be a stone frickin' lie?

[Thane_Banquo]

All I know is that Amnesty International was SILENT in the aftermath of the WTC massacre.

Not to mention that they were silent when Al-Qaeda captured and then summarily executed a U.S. serviceman.

Amnesty International is less than objective. It's run by West-hating leftists who consider the redistribution of wealth to be a human right.

[tomahawk]

The U.S.A.F. bombed the Taliban and Al Qaeda strongholds from up high and probably (unintentionally) killed hundreds of civilians. That's regrettable, but we were attacked from there, so we had no choice (except to go in on the ground like the Israelis did).

The Russian army bombed and shelled the Chechens in Grozny after the Chechen jihadist bandits attacked a Russian province called Dagestan and blew up apartment bulidings in Mosocw. The Russian assault on Grozny killed thousands of civilians. That's regrettable, but they were attacked from there, so they had no choice (except to go in on the ground like the Israelis did).

The Israelis went into the Jenin terrorist camp on the ground, so as to avoid killing civilians. They gave the civilians plenty of time to leave first. Most did. Some stayed, some of them involuntarily. Some were killed. The Israelis had no choice, they were attacked from there by two dozen homicide bombers. Ten more of them were arrested in the operation, with their suicide/homicide videos captured.

Moral illiterates, jihadists and anti-Jews are fixated on Jenin because it gives them a false excuse to justify killing Jews. That's all that's going on.