I see plenty of structures still standing.
And the Grandcamps was right alongside the dock, not "hundreds of yards away from the nearest structures"...though I'm pretty sure they were destroyed (no pics).
Posted on 04/19/2002 8:35:39 AM PDT by Registered
Understood, yet the scaling still fits: the ships in question were some distance from what was destroyed, while McVeigh's truck was only a sidewalk-width away. The former also caused significantly more destruction despite the distance. Amount vs. distance. vs. damage seems to scale properly sans conspiracy.
That's true...and which is why I contend one truckload was enough: I've found enough information "out there" to justify the standard OKC theory.
What's more interesting in this thread is that Doc claims it's out there, claims to have the number I'm asking for, but refuses to give it and insults me instead.
McVeigh claimed to have done practice runs (scale unknown) to determine how to direct the blast. IIRC, he ultimately used 8 55-gallon drums arranged in a J shape: that works out to about 400 gallons, and thus roughly 4000 pounds, arranged to increase the effect in one direction. 2 tons at 2 yards causing OKC damage matches pretty well to 1000 tons at hundreds of yards causing Texas City damage, esp. with the former intentional and the latter accidental.
We may not have exact figures, but all the data fits together pretty well.
You serve your cause poorly by being so obvious. You betray your expensive training. Your Masters will be displeased.
All we really don't know is "Why?"
What strikes me is that Doc is standing around a hole, a peg and a hammer and rabidly telling me how well the peg fits the hole without actually trying to put it in, and getting furious when I ask him to simply show me.
Only practical difference was intent.
The only thing they had in common was ammonium nitrate, and that in hugely disproportionate amounts.
What's so "disproportionate" about them? Larger amount produced larger damage - go figure. My whole thesis is that the blasts ARE proportionate, and I'm asking for reasoning to the contrary.
there was diesel fuel added at OKC and none at Texas City making OKC an ANFO device, unlike at TC
Some accounts do note additional fuel seeping into the TC AN containers. If anything, the deliberate addition of diesel in the OKC device enhanced the force produced (that on top of the deliberate arranging of containers to direct the blast). If anything is disproportionate, it's that the OKC blast was MORE powerful per unit of AN, further reinforcing my theory.
What's so "disproportionate" about them?
How far away was OKC felt? Fifteen miles?
That particular article says...Some 2,300 tons were already onboard, 880 of which were in the lower part of Hold 4.
Multiple tons vs 2.5-3 tons is what is so "disproportionate" about them.
My whole thesis is that the blasts ARE proportionate...
No where near the same in proportion IMO, but to each his own...You do state it is a "thesis" and I've stated my opinion so I guess we're back to square one.
...and I'm asking for reasoning to the contrary.
I've already tried reason and you don't see eye to eye with me. IMO you're being contrary, not asking for reasoning to the contrary!
Do you understand the word "proportionate"?
The difference in quantity is simply a different quantity, no proprotion. The "proprotion" is the comparison of the ratios of quantities to effects for different size quantities (or effects). A large quantity of AN going off had a large effect (to wit: moving buildings 15 miles away), while a medium quantity of AN going off had a medium effect (to wit: partial damage to immediately adjacent building, and broken windows within a mile). The damage at OKC was substantial, yes, yet it was proportionately less than a significantly larger quantity at TC: the truck was parked about 15 feet from the building, which suffered as much or more damage from gravity (having support columns blown out at the base) and was not wholly destroyed, vs. TC where the AN was hundreds of yards away from the nearest structures (which were demolished), and rattled buildings 15 miles away.
You really need to review the meaning of "proprotionate". There's more to it than comparing two numbers: it actually compares four.
IMO you're being contrary, not asking for reasoning to the contrary!
Let me ask it a different way then:
Damage at TC Damage at OKC
------------- = -------------
~2000 tons AN ~2 tons AN
So what's wrong with this equation?
So that's it? Criticize the view and leave? If I'm wrong, PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY! I'd gladly change my opinion IF someone can provide a reasonable explaination of why I'm wrong; tellingly, the conspiracy theorists just insult me and run off when pressed for facts. What's so scary about proportionality to historical events?
Something to think about. Would the range of damage have been less if the amount in the holds of the ships had been less? Would there have been less damage if the truck bomb had a lesser amount? How much would a reduced amount have had in each situation? A lessening of the amounts at TC wouldn't have caused that much of a difference while it would have at OKC.
And also, keep in mind that there were two explosions at TC, and only one at OKC, increasing the damage there.
BTW...Dipole Might tests results 1994...maybe you can find out something about the Dipole Might tests.
The tests for this project were conceived using four of the most common roadbed types in the United States and explosive charges that varied in size from 50 pounds to 1,000 pounds, and in type from C-4 to ANFO (C-4 to represent the effect of plastic explosives, and ANFO for its common availability and use in terrorist devices). By repeating several surfaces with different explosives weights and types, more data is able to be gathered with fewer events.
Here is something for both of us...Constructing an Obstacle Utilizing Off-Route Demolition Techniques-- A Practical Approach by MAJ Frank Akins
(Can't dig into this at the moment; will cogitate & reply later.)
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