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Peggy Noonan: The Pope Steps In
Opinion Journal ^ | 04/19/2002 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 04/18/2002 9:07:57 PM PDT by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:24 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Catholicguy
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I learned a lot reading it. The Pope while great is also old and sick. I can't imagine him having the strength to really go after the sickness in the American church with hammer and tongs and root it out. I agree with you, old habits are the hardest to break.
21 posted on 04/19/2002 7:37:07 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: LadyDoc
If he put his foot down, they would defy him, like the German bishops did. And the ultimate result would be a schism.

Let's get it over with. Those Catholics who think the Episcopalians took the right path with priestesses and birth control should follow their consciences and leave. Bishops included.

22 posted on 04/19/2002 7:45:41 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Aquinasfan
And the refusal of the bishops to implement Ex Corde Ecclesiae ranks right up there. It's time to purge the seminaries and colleges. If this pope won't do it, hopefully the next one will. God help us.

Sorry, my latin is poor. What does "Ex Corde Ecclesiae" mean?

Who are the leading contendors for the next pope? Isn't one of them of Jewish heritage and another an ultra-liberal Italian? Isn't there a chance we'll have the first Black (African) Pope? John Paul II was quite a surprise, and I think history will be kind to him. I believe that the Malachi prophecy says the next pope will be "the glory of the olive" .. whatever that means. I think the election of the Pope is an amazing ritual and am excited that, god willing, I will get to see it.

23 posted on 04/19/2002 7:48:09 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: galt-jw
if the pope wasnt concerned with trying to secure the grace Christ won for him and all men through self immolation and destruction in Gods name

What does that mean? Has the Pope been setting himself on fire?

24 posted on 04/19/2002 7:49:50 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Catholicguy
Excellent post...BTW, I heard the bishop's ad hoc committee formed about 15 years ago, and has (clearly) done absolutely nothing to address this issue. Pope John Paul would do well to fire this bunch and send a clear message to the clergy around the world, but (regrettably) that won't happen....
25 posted on 04/19/2002 7:57:18 AM PDT by Spook86
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To: RonDog
Five of eight cardinals represent east coast cities.
Seven of eight cardinals live east of the Mississippi.

Like many older institutions (the Federal Reserve Bank) the power of the Church is badly skewed towards the East. This means the cardinals tend to come from cities and cultures that are aggressivly liberal. It's a Blue Zone heirarchy. Is it a Blue Zone church? The West seems relatively more Protestant, but aren't states like New Mexico and Texas heavily Catholic?

26 posted on 04/19/2002 7:58:22 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
No mention of the families who insisted on confidentiality agreements to spare their families public scorn and thus, along with the hierarchies that condoned it, jeopardized other children

Confidentiality agreements were forced on plaintiffs. The defense lawyers make the offer: take the money and shut up or we go to court where your son will be slimed by our lawyers as a liar (or worse) and you may end up with nothing.

Such agreements are insisted on by the defendants for many reasons but number one is to keep the news away from other prospective plaintiffs.

The families are victims. They are not to blame.

Blame the perverts and the perverts' lawyers.

27 posted on 04/19/2002 8:04:41 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: Pokey78
This from NYPost's Page Six (today):

Just asking

WHICH high church official (not from N.Y.), among those summoned to meet with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican, might be cruising Rome's gay bars this week? Church insiders are taking bets on when the tidal wave of dirty clergy secrets is going to knock down the hotblooded holy man's closet door. Although he is not believed to have a problem with altar-boy types, all the hunky, young priests he's surrounded himself with for years weren't chosen solely for their pastoral skills.

A practicing gay Cardinal?

Wow!

28 posted on 04/19/2002 8:09:12 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: Jack Black
Sorry, my latin is poor. What does "Ex Corde Ecclesiae" mean?

I don't know, but it was the name of this encyclical on Catholic colleges and universities.

One of the most important recommendations contained in the encyclical is that bishops appoint all professors of theology at Catholic universities.

This recommendation was greeted with howls of protest from "Catholic" university presidents and widespread indifference by the U.S. bishops when it was first issued. Since then the bishops have proceeded to do absolutely nothing with regard to reigning in wayward theologians. Their performance in this area has been as pathetic as their treatment of the child molestation scandal.

29 posted on 04/19/2002 8:15:45 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
In addition, no mention of the teen-age who had sex with a priest, and the priest went to jail for that. The teenage, use to visit the priest in jail, and continued to have sex with him, in jail! Could it be that the kid like it? Homosexuality is like sex on speed. Homosexuals are typically too sexed up to be priests! That is the reason the military or the CIA did not like to use homosexuals. Their drive is too unnatural to the point that they jeopardize their missions.
30 posted on 04/19/2002 8:24:55 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: Big Bunyip
his face seemed that of a half-submerged whale looking silently at the world, a great mammal risen from the deep.

Peggy was stretching for that one.

She also could not have been close enough to make eye contact. When my husband & I kissed his ring last fall, we did make eye contact & there was nothing "half-submerged" about his expression at all. I'll never lose the memory of his smile.

31 posted on 04/19/2002 8:28:36 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: Catholicguy; *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding; JMJ333; Aunt Polgara; AgThorn...
Good thread, many good observations here.

I was going to just start listing the ways in which these Bishops have publicly opposed the Pope but I wouldn't be done typing the list until - until - until, I don't know

It all started with open dissent on Humanae Vitae, in an already corrupted clergy. Priests and bishops practicing sodomy have no moral authority upon which to call the faithful in the pews to marital purity. All non-procreative sex must be opposed, and Catholics in the pews dissenting on Humanae Vitae, and the rest on Christianity embracing non-procreative married sex, have no place pointing everywhere but themselves.

Our entire culture, our entire Church, both priesthood and laity, have divorced the unitive and the procreative aspect of sex.

This whole thing is a fundamental rejective of God's plan for Creation, which is to bring forth and raise saints that will know, love and serve God in this life and be happy with Him forever in the next.

It is a pandemic problem that infects those in the pew as well as those in the sanctuary.

The only answer is a return to ALL of the Church's teachings on sexuality, by both clergy and laity!

And that teaching is simple:

1)No sex outside of a sacramental marriage between man and women,

2)If you can't somehow get pregnant in the process, it ain't according to God's Will for sex.

The priesthood's sins are monstrous, muderous to body and soul, and criminal. The hierarchy's sins are even greater for hiding it and protecting it.

But the laity is not innocent in their own embrace of the sodomitic sins of marital contraception.

What will come of this is a return to basics in the whole of the Church.

But the path to that end point will be vicious and unfortunately strewn with many lost souls.

God Help Us! God have Mercy on us all!

32 posted on 04/19/2002 8:31:13 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Jack Black
Sorry, my latin is poor. What does "Ex Corde Ecclesiae" mean?

"From the heart of the Church".

33 posted on 04/19/2002 8:54:06 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Pokey78; Aquinasfan; Domestic Church; Dr. Brian Kopp
Noonan's column can be faulted for not going far enough, but it is clear she had one object in mind and that was putting Cardinal McCarrick in the light and saying, "Do not listen to this man. He is part of the problem."

She is a columnist and will write many more columns that will go deeper. I think this column is a good beginning for her even if the description of the Holy Father is in terribly poor taste.

Not one of the American Cardinals should take the lead on this. The Pope must rule from the Chair of Peter and "remove the red hat and ring" from each of them if necessary.

34 posted on 04/19/2002 9:20:35 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: nina0113
Do you have experiece with Parkinson's patients? Its the medication that causes these blank looks. Its not all the time, but there is a cycle having to do with when the last dosage of tremor controlling medicaton was administered. Peggy. I don't doubt Peggy. I've seen those looks up close. Even though the mind is tracking, the face does not reveal it.
35 posted on 04/19/2002 1:28:36 PM PDT by iranger
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I thought she mentioned the homo thing a couple of weeks ago. Besides, how long do you want her piece to be, she makes many a valid point.
36 posted on 04/19/2002 1:32:21 PM PDT by iranger
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To: Aquinasfan
One of the most important recommendations contained in the encyclical is that bishops appoint all professors of theology at Catholic universities.

Now that's a frightening prospect, given the lifestyle of some bishops! Hence, the contribution to the Lavendar Mafia in the seminaries.

37 posted on 04/19/2002 1:35:35 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
>)If you can't somehow get pregnant in the process, it ain't according to God's Will for sex. <

Well, that stricture isn't anything I have heard the magisterium decide. I have no doubt you are much better informed than I am about this issue and so I wonder if you can cite a decision taken that supports that statement.

. I am not being arguementative, I am a big fan of yours. It just seems to me that as God has both an active and permissive will, that includes a lot of wiggle room (I was gonna excise that phrase but when one discusses sex it is nearly imposible to avoid double entendres).

I am sure you know that as Karol Wotyla, the Pope wrote a tome on sex (I let a friend read my copy and never got it back) and he spoke about that natural infertile time when it certainly is permissible for one to have sexual congress (another one, I know) and not be engaged in anything opposed to the will of God.

It is my understanding that is what Natural Family Planning teaches also.

I think I must be misunderstanding you and I look forward to your reply. Please keep up your great work...

38 posted on 04/19/2002 3:57:51 PM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: RonDog
During the audience the pontiff, confiding that his own old age helps him sympathize with the difficulties of the elderly in a fast-changing world, urged society to value their experience and wisdom and not consider them a useless weight.

Amen! Thank you, RonDog.

39 posted on 04/19/2002 6:13:48 PM PDT by ELS
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.
Free Republic Prayers for Priests
40 posted on 04/19/2002 6:15:50 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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