Posted on 04/17/2002 5:48:10 PM PDT by B. A. Conservative
If my count is correct there were 66 unique respondents to the question, "Is the United States broken?" There were only 12 respondents who answered a clear "NO". There were 22 replies that I categorized as "equivocal". Most of these were cautiously guarded and expressed considerable concern or confusion either about the question or their answers. clearly they were trying to distinguish between the concepts of broken in the sense of "broken beyond repair" or "broken, but it is not too late to fix". Some of the best replies were in this group. Later in our discussion I will post some links to what I thought were either thought-provoking or illustrative replies.
By far the largest group of respondents were in the cateqory who do indeed think the United States is broken. Almost half, 32 of those who responded answered "YES" to this question.
While it clear the future thrusts of my posts are going to directed primarily at this group, I hope all those who have viewed these threads or responded will continue to follow these threads and contribute their thoughts along the way on every question. In fact, I am somewhat disappointed in the relatively small number of respondents. I believe the questions we are going to address are at the very heart and soul of the primary purpose of there even being a FreeRepublic web site. I recognize that there are countless issues that we all want to know or that could be of concern to our particular points of view. But freedom and self government are the foundation of the United States and I think freedom and limited government are severely endangered. I am gravely concerned that it could be too late or a lost cause to recover what we have lost.
In answering the questions already posed and perhaps in adding new questions, I hope that I personally, and FreeRepublic as a group can decide for ourselves where we can focus our energies toward what are hopefully common goals in securing the blessings of liberty through less and thereby, better government. With these stated goals, I post the next question:
If the United States is broken, can it be fixed?
Valid point, and well said. I hope that anyone viewing these threads will give that some consideration and offer some suggestions. It should be abundantly clear from what I have previously said, that I have serious doubts about the viability of the United States as a nation. I have had trouble deciding whether to be a die-hard in trying to resurrect a dying beast that abandoned its own way of life hoping to breathe new freedom into its slave-mongering ways. There are two other choices: simply let nature take its course and stay out of the way of the crash and its aftermath or even to see if the crash can be avoided by separating now and showing the hope of a new path.
Since this forum could provide knowledgeable people interested in these choices, I was hoping to foster a discussion of the various possibilities and the consequences of each.
So far I have not been able to spawn much discussion. There are clearly people interested, but most are too busy to participate or have other fish to fry for themselves. The lack of participation makes me think there is very little reason for hope in saving the cratering beast, leaving getting out of the way or putting it out of its misery as quickly as possible as the best options for me.
These are all symptoms. Virtually all of these programs exist by virtue of misrepresentation of the Welfare and Commerce Clauses of the Constitution.
Transfering any substantial amount of power from states and individual to the federal government through creative semantics in lieu of amendment is about as short sighted as carrying gasoline in a styrofoam cooler.
when will the collapse happen, all signs point to yes
I believe God is Sovereign over all things on the Earth, including the rise and fall of Empires, because He has seen through to the end of time. Therefore, God knows whether or not America will be saved. My guess is that it WILL be saved, one last time.
The way I see it, Clinton has left behind a criminal house of cards, that if uncovered and exposed, would rock this country FAR more than 9/11. I believe he stays safe because he & Hillary have dirt on the Republicans, (especially Bush Sr.) and so there is a sort of political M.A.D. between Clinton and Bush.
However, if God wants to truly shake up America, and turn us back to Him, uncovering & exposing these serious treasonous, murderous crimes will be more effective than anything else I could think of.
So... this is my current working theory: (which you can all laugh at)... I believe God is waiting for the perfect, optimal time to expose the gut-sickening criminality of the Clinton Administration, (and others), that will cause a deep desire in millions of Americans to reclaim the morals and values they willingly threw away in order to justify their votes for Clinton/democrats. This, I believe, will in turn, lead to a spiritual revival in this country that will be unparalelled in our history...
This will lead to the crash of the American liberal Media, which will then lead to the creation of a Superstate in Europe (because the EU must counter an Ultra-conservative, God-fearing America, and can no longer hope to do so "bloodlessly", by controlling the majority of us through our left-wing Big Media, and schools)
Then, The Rapture will happen, decimating America, but leaving the United States of Europe virtually untouched. Followed by One World Govt. and the AntiChrist/Tribulation. Just a working hunch, but as I peer through the dim outlines of the future, that is what I (think) I see on the horizon. Maybe.
With brilliant ideas like this, one wouldn't expect such an effort to go far, would one? What your other "big features?" Can't wait to hear.
You don't like the idea of Representatives and electors chosen by lot? Personally I think it would be an improvement. We could not possibly do any worse then the people we have in Congress now, and we might certainly do better.
Plus, the idea would remove the constant posturing for election we see form our politicians. It would do away with the permanent political class we now have. Representatives who knew that they would have to go live among the people after their term in office would be much less likely to pass laws that had an adverse effect on the people. There would be no incentive to give power to Washington because the representatives would know they wouldn't be in Washington long.
The absence of elections would also mean there would be no campaigns. Thus no campaign contributions. And no shakedowns of corporations by politicians for campaign contributions. This means less corruption. Add in the fact that many, if not most of the people chisen would be good, honest citizens, we might have a government we could be proud of instead of the cess-pit we have in Washington today.
Political parties, or factions as Washington rightfully called them, would be a thing of the past. With no elections, there is no need to have a party. They wouldn't control the representatives since they wouldn't be needed to "get out the vote."
Plus, our government would be truly representative of the people -- because they would be the people.
I can see significant benefits in this plan. But I would be interested in hearing your objections.
Well, here is another equally great idea. Let's give all the land back to the Indians. Great idea; ain't going to happen. So much for hypothetical cases. I don't have enough time to waste time with hypothetical things. The real world is plenty challenging, so I live, work and think about it.
In fact the real world is a much more challenging thing, than playing with hypothetical cases. You should try it, for a change.
I can see significant benefits in this plan. But I would be interested in hearing your objections.
My objection is that it is a hypothetical exercise; wholly unrealistic. To comment further is a waste of time.
You were the one who asked for my comments. I didn't seek you out. But the reason to discuss hypothetical concepts is that they can help us understand where we are now and help us get ideas for how to fix our problems.
For instance, the politicians in Washington say there is a huge problem with the way campaigns are run. That the current system leads to unbridled corruption. Their remedy is to eviserate the First Amendment. Surely, it makes sense to discuss alternate means of solving this problem.
I have proposed an alternative. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine. Don't post.
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