Replies

"....is that they use the same tactics they villify in radical "feminist" rhetoric ... namely ... collectivist demonizing of the opposite sex, and collectivist "victimology" of their own. At the very least you'd have to agree this is embarassingly hypocritical. "

At the very least, I'd have to characterize that as a damned lie. The term "radical feminst" encompasses people of both sexes. Never - never - have I, or Dr. Sommers for that matter, ever interchanged the term "woman" with "radical feminist." Pointing to specific feminists who happen to be women does not contradict this fact.

Your desperation to end this discussion is reflected in your use of pejorative terms like "whiner." When hate speech labeling all men as "pigs" and all fathers as absent "deadbeats" passes for casual conversation, the feminist pendulum, however nobly set in motion, has travelled too far. While you pretend to lament the state of fatherhood, radical feminism works in earnest to further politically undermine it. As you criticize Dr. Sommers' documented, footnoted, verified facts and data as "whining," feminists get prime time coverage with their baldfaced lies and flat out man-hating boy-hating bigotry. And finally, when you are faced with a married, responsible and involved father telling you all this, you still need to generalize with references to unmarried, irresponsible, and uninvolved fathers. There simply is no dissent tolerated within the feminist ideology that you pretend to eschew.

Every single prejudice and tactic, of which you've tried in vain to accuse me, can be found within your response. The dishonesty was as stale as the sarcasm.

The term "radical feminst" encompasses people of both sexes. Never - never - have I, or Dr. Sommers for that matter, ever interchanged the term "woman" with "radical feminist."

Nor did I. You came closer to it though. Let me explain why I say that.... You say the schools are "feminizing boys". Well which is it? Radical feminists or the schools? The "schools" is a hell of a lot of people, mostly women. So you come damn close to demonizing women in general with your schools "feminizing boys" critique.

Also, you seem to lay blame on moms in general (in your supposedly matriarchal Islamic countries) and single moms in our own country for derailing masculinity. This sure sounds close to demonoizing "all women" to me.

With regard to single mom households, this is a misnomer. These are actually "father absent" household. The moms cannot make them dual parent households by themselves. That takes two people. At the very least, the presence of the mom prevents them from being "no-parent" households.

In any case, you didn't provide a solution to the problem of fatherlessness, instead providing only generalized complaints about "single moms". How the hell can we have a discussion about "fatherlessness" if we can't even talk about the fathers? Where are the dads and what kind of plan do you propose for getting them involved with their kids?

In contrast to you, I HAVE A PLAN. My plan is to expect dads to meet their obligations to there kids. This includes including fathers in every conversation about kids. Never, never, never mention babies, kids.... anything at all to do with children without aksing about the dad. One of the ways our culture marginalizes fathers is by rarely ever mentioning them! It seems to me a good first start is to acknowledge fathers in our everyday conversations about kids, schools, etc. Ever notice how many TV commercials, programs, print ads etc with kids in them never mention or depict the father? He's absent even in our everyday media!

Your desperation to end this discussion is reflected in your use of pejorative terms like "whiner."

Note: When people just make complaint like statments like "our boys are being feminized" but offer no solutions other than reiterating the original complaint, I term that "whining". WHO is actually doing the "feminizing" and "child abuse" (according to you) in our schools? Is it the teachers? Who exactly is doing the grunt work executing this "radical femininst" agenda you claim is out to undermine boys? And what are your suggestions for stopping the "child abuse"?

As I mentioned, I volunteer at my kid's school. I work full time but take one day a week to volunteer. I've NEVER seen a dad do this. This doesn't mean it never happens, but IMO it is rare. Why is that? Yet I see no shortage of men making blanket complaints about the schools. Where do they get their information? Wouldn't it be better for men to check it out first hand and see how their sons or other boys are treated in school?

When hate speech labeling all men as "pigs" and all fathers as absent "deadbeats" passes for casual conversation, the feminist pendulum, however nobly set in motion, has travelled too far.

Well since I never use those terms guess I have nothing to defend. Strawman argument.

While you pretend to lament the state of fatherhood, radical feminism works in earnest to further politically undermine it. As you criticize Dr. Sommers' documented, footnoted, verified facts and data as "whining," feminists get prime time coverage with their baldfaced lies and flat out man-hating boy-hating bigotry.

As I said, identifying the problem is a good first step but that's all it is. If one keeps re-iteratiing the "problem" but offering no solutions ... I call that whining. Also when there is generalized "blaming" of some feminist conspiracy collectivised as "the schools" I call that demonizing. WHO exacting is doing all this damage to our kids and how is it orchestrated and who carries it out? Who is complicit in the conspiracy to "abuse" our children? Is it teachers (who a mostly women)? Is it school administrators (who are mostly women)? Who exactly are we blaming here? And if its such a huge problem, WHO is caring enough to rescue our kids? Do you expect the abusers to rescue them or do you have someone else in mind? (Note: I'm trying to open up the debate here).

And finally, when you are faced with a married, responsible and involved father telling you all this, you still need to generalize with references to unmarried, irresponsible, and uninvolved fathers.

Whoa. YOU brought up fatherlessness. You didn't bring up responsibile involved fathers. Also, you're projecting what you think I believe. Perhaps you'd be better of asking me instead.I beleive the vast majority of parents of BOTH genders are decent, honest, hard working people trying to do the right thing by their kids. YOU (not me) are the one generalizing about broad categories of people involved with kids lives in your rather vague criticisms of "schools" and more specific criticism of "single moms" (many of which are doing a great job by any standard and many of the rest doing the absolute best they possibly can). With regard to kids in single parent households, where is the missing parent?

There simply is no dissent tolerated within the feminist ideology that you pretend to eschew.

That is a fair criticism of some factions of "feminism". I've certainly found that to be true. I've also found that to be true of the opposite campe, the feminist critics who are not open-minded about "feminism" in its many varieties and the many positive things that feminism has brought our society. Many of these people tolerate NO dissent either in denouncing everything about feminism past, present and future.