[Lorianne]

The term "radical feminst" encompasses people of both sexes. Never - never - have I, or Dr. Sommers for that matter, ever interchanged the term "woman" with "radical feminist."

Nor did I. You came closer to it though. Let me explain why I say that.... You say the schools are "feminizing boys". Well which is it? Radical feminists or the schools? The "schools" is a hell of a lot of people, mostly women. So you come damn close to demonizing women in general with your schools "feminizing boys" critique.

Also, you seem to lay blame on moms in general (in your supposedly matriarchal Islamic countries) and single moms in our own country for derailing masculinity. This sure sounds close to demonoizing "all women" to me.

With regard to single mom households, this is a misnomer. These are actually "father absent" household. The moms cannot make them dual parent households by themselves. That takes two people. At the very least, the presence of the mom prevents them from being "no-parent" households.

In any case, you didn't provide a solution to the problem of fatherlessness, instead providing only generalized complaints about "single moms". How the hell can we have a discussion about "fatherlessness" if we can't even talk about the fathers? Where are the dads and what kind of plan do you propose for getting them involved with their kids?

In contrast to you, I HAVE A PLAN. My plan is to expect dads to meet their obligations to there kids. This includes including fathers in every conversation about kids. Never, never, never mention babies, kids.... anything at all to do with children without aksing about the dad. One of the ways our culture marginalizes fathers is by rarely ever mentioning them! It seems to me a good first start is to acknowledge fathers in our everyday conversations about kids, schools, etc. Ever notice how many TV commercials, programs, print ads etc with kids in them never mention or depict the father? He's absent even in our everyday media!

Your desperation to end this discussion is reflected in your use of pejorative terms like "whiner."

Note: When people just make complaint like statments like "our boys are being feminized" but offer no solutions other than reiterating the original complaint, I term that "whining". WHO is actually doing the "feminizing" and "child abuse" (according to you) in our schools? Is it the teachers? Who exactly is doing the grunt work executing this "radical femininst" agenda you claim is out to undermine boys? And what are your suggestions for stopping the "child abuse"?

As I mentioned, I volunteer at my kid's school. I work full time but take one day a week to volunteer. I've NEVER seen a dad do this. This doesn't mean it never happens, but IMO it is rare. Why is that? Yet I see no shortage of men making blanket complaints about the schools. Where do they get their information? Wouldn't it be better for men to check it out first hand and see how their sons or other boys are treated in school?

When hate speech labeling all men as "pigs" and all fathers as absent "deadbeats" passes for casual conversation, the feminist pendulum, however nobly set in motion, has travelled too far.

Well since I never use those terms guess I have nothing to defend. Strawman argument.

While you pretend to lament the state of fatherhood, radical feminism works in earnest to further politically undermine it. As you criticize Dr. Sommers' documented, footnoted, verified facts and data as "whining," feminists get prime time coverage with their baldfaced lies and flat out man-hating boy-hating bigotry.

As I said, identifying the problem is a good first step but that's all it is. If one keeps re-iteratiing the "problem" but offering no solutions ... I call that whining. Also when there is generalized "blaming" of some feminist conspiracy collectivised as "the schools" I call that demonizing. WHO exacting is doing all this damage to our kids and how is it orchestrated and who carries it out? Who is complicit in the conspiracy to "abuse" our children? Is it teachers (who a mostly women)? Is it school administrators (who are mostly women)? Who exactly are we blaming here? And if its such a huge problem, WHO is caring enough to rescue our kids? Do you expect the abusers to rescue them or do you have someone else in mind? (Note: I'm trying to open up the debate here).

And finally, when you are faced with a married, responsible and involved father telling you all this, you still need to generalize with references to unmarried, irresponsible, and uninvolved fathers.

Whoa. YOU brought up fatherlessness. You didn't bring up responsibile involved fathers. Also, you're projecting what you think I believe. Perhaps you'd be better of asking me instead.I beleive the vast majority of parents of BOTH genders are decent, honest, hard working people trying to do the right thing by their kids. YOU (not me) are the one generalizing about broad categories of people involved with kids lives in your rather vague criticisms of "schools" and more specific criticism of "single moms" (many of which are doing a great job by any standard and many of the rest doing the absolute best they possibly can). With regard to kids in single parent households, where is the missing parent?

There simply is no dissent tolerated within the feminist ideology that you pretend to eschew.

That is a fair criticism of some factions of "feminism". I've certainly found that to be true. I've also found that to be true of the opposite campe, the feminist critics who are not open-minded about "feminism" in its many varieties and the many positive things that feminism has brought our society. Many of these people tolerate NO dissent either in denouncing everything about feminism past, present and future.

[The Giant Apricots]

If one keeps re-iteratiing the "problem" but offering no solutions ...

And what fair, balanced, and comprehensive solutions do you offer?

[Harrison Bergeron]

Despite the longwinded screeds trying to turn the discussion into a pissing contest between the sexes, there still exists identifiable, organized, funded, and politically powerful efforts to undermine fatherhood and define simple boyhood as a dangerous pathology. No amount of fingerpointing at irresponsible men can mitigate this organized campaign of evil. Somehow, you view feminists speaking out with lies and hatred as the "exercising of rights," but my speaking out becomes "whining." By continuing on the path of blame and bigotry, you reduce my need to argue my own points.

Perhaps the two of you were in the audience in the jeering section at the following event:

Silencing Sommers

You're certainly doing your best to emulate the event here at FR.

[Nick Danger]

WHO is actually doing the "feminizing" and "child abuse" (according to you) in our schools? Is it the teachers? Who exactly is doing the grunt work executing this "radical femininst" agenda you claim is out to undermine boys? And what are your suggestions for stopping the "child abuse"?

It is the teachers, and the principals, and I realize that sounds preposterous to someone who does not connect the phenomenon to Marxist-Gramscian tactics. Here's how this works:

Marxists masquerading as 'womens advocates' wandered the halls of Congress drumming up support for Federal help for girls, who were suffering enormously in our male-dominated school systems. This was poppycock, but many of the lobbyists were credentialed academics and they claimed to have scientific research backing up these claims. So they in fact walked away with Title IX and the Women's Equity in Education Act, and some other bells and whistles. Senator Biden was a complete toady for these people and spearheaded many of their programs. These laws all created bureaucracies with substantial funding, which the feminist Marxists had basically designed, and which they were ready to populate and run when the laws passed... which they were.

So now we have things like this, which are federally-funded teacher training programs. Much of the material from places like this is required reading now in our schools of education. This is what teachers are told is so, and the teachers are given very specific steps to take in order to fix what's wrong. Basically this is a federally-funded social engineering project that has been thoroughly hijacked by lesbian Marxists and their male sycophants.

In examing that web site, take a look at how these people position themselves, versus what they are actually doing.

Here is what they say about themselves:

Educational Equity Concepts, Inc. is a national not-for-profit organization that promotes bias-free learning through innovative programs and materials. Founded in 1982, our mission is to decrease discrimination based on gender, race/ethnicity, disability, and level of family income.

Now look at the pictures. See any boys? Nope, all the children these people care about are girls. Here's what they do:

• We create practical hands-on materials and programs for early childhood and elementary classrooms and after-school settings.
  
• We offer workshops and training institutes for educators, school administrators, and parents.
  
• We design and implement research projects to strengthen education programs and further public understanding of the need for equal opportunity starting in early childhood.
• We publish resources for women and girls with disabilities.
  

Isn't that nice? They help people with disabilities. But only if they are female.

Here is another such outfit. That one is even more ideological. If you are a fair-minded person, those people will make you puke. If you truly wonder where a "radical feminist agenda" comes from in our schools, that place is the Mother Ship.

Finally, here is a link to a page that is actually on a federal government web site, this one at the Department of Education. It is a list of "resources" that are available -- and paid for by your tax dollars -- to support Gender Equity in Education. Here is a list of the section headings

• Women in Mathematics, Science, and Technology
• Family Activities and Parent Strategies
  • Expect the Best From a Girl. That's What You'll Get.
  • Raising Confident Competent Daughters: Strategies for Parents
• Women with Disabilities
• Women of Color in Education
• Research/Gender Equity in Education
  • The Chilly Classroom Climate: A Guide to Improve the Education of Women.
  • The Educational Progress of Women: findings from The Condition of Education (1995)
  • Empowering America's Families: Documenting the Success of Vocational Equity Programs for Women and Girls
  • Failing at Fairness: How America's Schools Cheat Girls

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. There is a huge, enormously well-funded federal education bureaucracy that controls teacher education in this country, and it is populated almost entirely by people with the feminist-Marxist view of the world. You might think I'm grinding an ax and so I am only listing the "girls only" programs and leaving out all the corresponding "boy-friendly" stuff, but have a look for yourself. There is no boy-friendly stuff. "Gender Equity in Education" is all girls, all the time. This is the indoctrination that upcoming teachers receive in schools It's been going on for over a decade now. There are boys in high school now that have never had a teacher who wasn't indoctinated on the way in to view him as a privileged member of the oppressor class who needs to have his sails trimmed.