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Shooting breaks out at Nativity Church
UK Yahoo News ^ | April 16, 2002 | Reuters

Posted on 04/16/2002 5:49:34 PM PDT by history_matters

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinian gunmen hiding in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity have exchanged fire with Israeli soldiers who have surrounded the traditional birthplace of Jesus in a two-week-old standoff.

Fransiscan Father Seweryn Lubecki, who is one of several dozen Christian clerics stranded in the church after Palestinian gunmen burst in two weeks ago, said the fighting lasted for about an hour.

"We could hear heavy rifle and tank shooting. It is hard for us to determine who started the shooting. We are locked up and we could not see the whole thing," he told Reuters by telephone.

"It seems that the basilica was not damaged. The Israeli soldiers are very careful not to damage it," he said.

Mohammed Al-Madani, the governor of Bethlehem who is among those holed-up inside, said the Israelis had tried to storm the church but failed.

"They tried to get in, but they couldn't," he told Reuters by telephone. "There are no injuries, thank God."

The army said in a statement: "Palestinian opened fire at Israeli forces who fired back at the source of the fire."

Israeli forces who invaded Bethlehem two weeks ago besieged the shrine after dozens of gunmen burst into the church compound to seek refuge with some 50 monks, priests and nuns.

Israeli officials say around 30 gunmen in the church were wanted for deadly attacks against Israelis and the forces would not leave until they either surrendered and were put on trial in Israel or agreed to accept safe-passage into exile.

Bethlehem's governor Madani has rejected the plan.

FLARES IN BETHLEHEM SKY

During the exchange, four flares lit up the sky, while the church bell rang in the background.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told Israeli television in an interview U.S. Central Intelligence Agency officials had mediated the deal to end the impasse but it had not yet received Palestinian Authority approval.

He said some of the gunmen were involved in militant attacks in which American citizens were killed.

"Those who are not involved in terror acts and are not members of terror groups will be released and those who are involved must decide between standing trial in Israel...or being expelled," Sharon said.

Israel has said it has no intention of storming the church. Asked about Israeli plans, Major Tal Ravlan, an army spokesman, said: "There are a few alternatives to storming the church but I would not like to get into it right now."

A statement from Palestinians inside, which was sent to a local hospital official, said the army was arresting family members to put them under pressure to give themselves up.

The Israeli army said it only arrested people it suspected of "terrorist" activity and did not use arrests to exert any psychological pressure on others.

Earlier, the Israeli army evacuated two Palestinians needing medical attention from the church in a military ambulance. The Israeli army said both men, one of them wounded by gunshot wounds several days ago, were placed under arrest.

Israeli soldiers on Tuesday occupied the top floor of a hotel overlooking the church complex. Ravlan said the army would be staying for two to three days, but did not give any reasons.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bethlehem; catholic; catholiccaucus; catholicchurch; franciscans; idf; israel; nativity; pa; palestine
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To: history_matters
The Franciscans disagree with you with regard to the current situation. Please see the link above where Fr. Peter Vasko, OFM of the Custody of the Holy Land insists that the Christians are not hostages but are choosing to stay there and protect the holy site as they have for the last 800 years.

Would you say anything else if your friends were held up with 200 terrorists? I didn't think so.

21 posted on 04/16/2002 6:06:10 PM PDT by Lent
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To: Lent
The PLO and Hizbollah desecration and destruction of Maronite and Melkite and Orthodox churches and cemetaries will stand for ever as a mark of shame against the PLO and all Moslem extremists.
22 posted on 04/16/2002 6:09:14 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
You are right....we can't even see the main battle...it is a vortex because of the Nativity and the Tabernacle. "To God, all moments in time are present in their immediacy" (CCC)
23 posted on 04/16/2002 6:11:08 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: tomahawk; lent
"Palestinians" (?)

I think the real defining adjective (that will fit Arab, Jew, Westerner, Chinese, Russian alike) is militant atheist revolutionary or "communist".

Indeed they do lay the groundwork for a yin yang of perpetual conflict.

That is their special commission (along with chaos, discord, death, hate) ... just as the believer's is Hope (along with order, obedience, life and forgiveness).

All Believers need do to lose -- personally and in the grand scheme of things -- is adopt for even a moment the alchemy of pragmatism by which the enemy's tactics are rationalized as "just".

24 posted on 04/16/2002 6:11:14 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Lent
Are you accusing the Franciscans?
25 posted on 04/16/2002 6:12:03 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Read post #13. Have you ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome?
26 posted on 04/16/2002 6:14:04 PM PDT by Lent
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To: history_matters
Maybe they should all come out so we know they are truly not hostages.
27 posted on 04/16/2002 6:14:28 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: Lent
Yes. Are you accusing the Franciscans? Or are you accusing them of suffering from Stockholm Syndrome after two weeks?
28 posted on 04/16/2002 6:16:45 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
I believe the Israelis. They could have done something a long time ago. I understand that all Palestinians in the Church are not terrorists, but this shows that the terrorists will stop at nothing, to include sacrificing their own children. I shall continue to pray for the Franciscans and those who are innocent. I do not trust the mayor.
29 posted on 04/16/2002 6:17:34 PM PDT by Angelique
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To: AppyPappy
If they come out, there will be a bloodbath in the holy site they have defended and guarded for 800 years. They will not allow that to happen.
30 posted on 04/16/2002 6:17:42 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: mdittmar
They ARe hostages in a way....but they are PROTECORS of the most HOLIEST of sites of Christianity. If they left, the Palis would desecrate the Christian Holy Site and so the Priests and the Nuns STAY....to PROTECT....the Church...not the Palis.

I have been there...the Holy Place is down stairs and quite small, but upstairs is large and open, so MAYBE the Palis haven't ruined the place. The Israelis would NEVER harm the Church.

31 posted on 04/16/2002 6:18:24 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: history_matters
If they come out, there will be a bloodbath in the holy site they have defended and guarded for 800 years. They will not allow that to happen.

I agree ,they are defending this site with their lives..

32 posted on 04/16/2002 6:19:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Angelique
To be honest with you, I do not trust him either. I've known him a while and have some reason not to trust him. I also remember when the Israelis had their HQ/Police Station on Manger Square -- and when it comes to their presence in Bethlehem -- I have an equally difficult time trusting them. I do however trust the Franciscans, Armenians, and the Greek Orthodox.
34 posted on 04/16/2002 6:21:42 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Yes. Are you accusing the Franciscans? Or are you accusing them of suffering from Stockholm Syndrome after two weeks?

I'm not accusing anybody but the PLO but if you think that these are in there because they want to be in the good company of these terrorists then I'm afraid you're seriously mistaken.

35 posted on 04/16/2002 6:22:05 PM PDT by Lent
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To: Steve Eisenberg
Monte Cassino is not an option. This is the oldest Church in continuous use in the Holy Land. Not even the Persians tried to destroy it. It must endure.
36 posted on 04/16/2002 6:23:11 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Lent
No! No, you are the one who is sadly, sadly mistaken. The Franciscans have guarded this site with their lives for 800 years ever since St. Francis came to the Holy Land. They will never leave of their own free will. They will fulfill their mission to serve Christ and protect his birthplace no matter what.
37 posted on 04/16/2002 6:25:03 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: mdittmar
I noticed that too.
38 posted on 04/16/2002 6:25:40 PM PDT by TheDon
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To: history_matters
If they come out, there will be a bloodbath in the holy site they have defended and guarded for 800 years.

I think it's the way you phrase your issue. Are they protecting this site? Yes. Would they be happier to not have these psychopathic terrorists in their midst and freely go out and come in and to attend to their personal matters? Yes.

39 posted on 04/16/2002 6:26:04 PM PDT by Lent
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To: Cicero
I am glad for your concern about the innocent Christians in the Church. I know your opinion is usually at variance with mine e.g. Cardinal Egan.
40 posted on 04/16/2002 6:27:20 PM PDT by history_matters
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