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To: Oldeconomybuyer
I am somehow troubled by this ruling. I know that it does not actually hurt a real child to have a virtual image of child porn, and I know there is a really fine line as to appearing to be a child and actually being one -- some 12 year olds looking like 21 and some 21 year olds looking like 12 and all -- but damn, something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.
4 posted on 04/16/2002 7:40:22 AM PDT by Lazamataz
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To: Lazamataz
but damn, something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.

Well, obviously it's creepy to think of anyone getting their kicks off fake child porn too, even if it doesn't involve an actual child. I think that's what you're feeling.

6 posted on 04/16/2002 7:42:00 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: Lazamataz
You can't have the government telling you how you can arrange pixels in a picture. That's the bottom line.

It's a victory for the sickos and weirdos, but it's still the right decision, which is confusing.

13 posted on 04/16/2002 7:46:14 AM PDT by dead
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To: Lazamataz
What's wrong is that, regarless of the individual merit one way or the other with this case, the First Amendment has become a question about the commerical rights of pornographers rather than preserving rights for political speech.
17 posted on 04/16/2002 7:47:05 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: Lazamataz
something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it. What is wrong is the hypocrisy of the entertainment industry and the general public for tolerating its crap. If it didn't make money, it wouldn't happen.
32 posted on 04/16/2002 7:55:10 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Lazamataz
This is a great victory for sick perverts who photoshop the faces of small kids from magazines and catalogs onto hard core porn pictures of barely 18 hairless teens being savaged.

Seriously, this is what a lot of the "virtual kiddie porn" consists of, as reported in many legal cases. It looks exactly like kiddie porn, the only difference being that the bodies used are (theoretically) over 18 while the faces are not.

Once this crap becomes widespread and legal and tolerated, it will become almost impossible to sift out many cases of actual child rape and abuse and use for kiddie porn, since the "real" kiddie porn will just float along with all the legal "virtual kiddie porn".

Cyber cops then will have the almost impossible task of stopping the real rape and abuse of real children for kiddie porn by catching the pornographers in the act.

64 posted on 04/16/2002 8:13:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Lazamataz
something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.

For me, at least, the problem is that by depicting it as kids having sex, it is kiddie porn, regardless of the age of those taking part. The intent, and the perception, is what matters.

The legalities and biological ages of the participants are secondary.

I think what we have here is a very good example of the difference between the letter and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law can mean a variety of things, depending on the moral outlook of the people interpreting it.

73 posted on 04/16/2002 8:29:02 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Lazamataz
The court said language in a 1996 child pornography law was unconstitutionally vague and far-reaching.

This is the problem. Write a good law and this won't happen. The people who write these laws leave them intentionally vauge so they can intrpret them anyway they want time goes by.

104 posted on 04/16/2002 8:49:39 AM PDT by Protagoras
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To: Lazamataz
I am VERY troubled, also....I think it's because there is NO right OR wrong in the Courts evaluation of the First Amendment anymore, just some perverted prose about whether a picture is "real" or not....makes me sick....Can you imagine the Founding Fathers evaluating this stuff?
144 posted on 04/16/2002 9:17:15 AM PDT by goodnesswins
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To: Lazamataz
...something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.

Of course there is. Pornography of any type is immoral. But even when we know something is immoral, it does not necessarily follow that the Government has any business stepping in to regulate it. This was a good ruling.

145 posted on 04/16/2002 9:18:55 AM PDT by Redcloak
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To: Lazamataz
but damn, something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.

Well, yeah, drawing sexually explicit pictures of kids is well... sick, depraved, gross, disgusting, vile, vulgar and icky. Pretty creepy too. Anyone who would do that definately bears close scrutiny in my opinion.

149 posted on 04/16/2002 9:21:47 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Lazamataz
I cannot put my finger on it.

You better not, lest you spend 20 years in prison.

173 posted on 04/16/2002 9:45:58 AM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: Lazamataz
"something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it."

You know it is morally wrong, as most of us do. But that does not necessarily make it legally wrong. The SC made the right decision, IMO.

But didn't one of the founders say something about "self-government will not work without self-discipline?" Or maybe it was Paul Harvey.

Carolyn

182 posted on 04/16/2002 9:53:33 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: Lazamataz
something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.

You can't put your finger on it? This is a joke, right?
187 posted on 04/16/2002 9:57:23 AM PDT by hawaiian
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To: Lazamataz
Because as a detail we all hate to think or see the idea of child porn.. in the grand sense it's a victory to first amendment in which other "virtual acts" could be encroached upon as well.. what about "virtual" smoking a joint or "virtual" speeding.. it could be argued that virtual law breaking encourages regular law breaking.. least that's the way I see the big picture.
199 posted on 04/16/2002 10:16:24 AM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Lazamataz
This part of the longer article bothered me very much. Our standards are, indeed, being defined by Hollywood.

This from Reuters:
Kennedy wrote for the court majority that the law was too broad and violated the First Amendment by prohibiting speech despite serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. He said themes of teen-age sexual activity and the sexual abuse of children have inspired countless literary works. He said William Shakespeare in "Romeo and Juliet" created the most famous pair of teen-age lovers, one of whom was just 13.

While Shakespeare may not have included sexually explicit scenes for the Elizabethan audience, modern movie directors may want to show that the couple consummated their relationship, he said.

Kennedy said a number of acclaimed movies, filmed without any child actors, explore themes that fall within the wide sweep of the law's prohibitions.

CITES MOVIES 'TRAFFIC,' 'AMERICAN BEAUTY'
He cited the award-wining movies, "Traffic," which has the high school daughter of the nation's drug czar trading sex for drugs, and "American Beauty," with scenes of sexual relations between a teen-age girl and her boyfriend and a teen-age girl and a middle-aged man.

The so-called "virtual" child pornography law, adopted by Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996, made it a crime to distribute or possess the pictures, even if the images did not involve real children.

-----end quote----

Looks like we can score one for Clinton. Amazingly, in the sex department.

222 posted on 04/16/2002 11:18:29 AM PDT by PoisedWoman
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To: Lazamataz
"but damn, something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it."

What's wrong is that this virtual kiddie porn exists at all, which prompted congress to pass a law, which prompted the court to rule upon it.

Even had the court upheld the law, that would not, alas, have fixed the underlying cultural illness.

225 posted on 04/16/2002 11:23:58 AM PDT by Tauzero
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To: Lazamataz
>>something is just wrong here, and I cannot put my finger on it.<<

The child pornography collections of pedophiles are a stimulus to desire, and to action.

Only in the modern era have we required injury to an actual child as the necessary element of the crime.

Obscene material is that which is unacceptable to "community standards", and that which tends to excite lust in the viewer, and to be degrading.

Virtual child pornography meets all of these tests.

233 posted on 04/16/2002 11:35:30 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: Lazamataz
I am somehow troubled by this ruling.

I concur, and my reasoning is one and the same used against adult in pornography as even "simulated" child porn still hurts children everywhere. And since children must be protected from perverts, even "fake kiddie porn" should be illegal.

240 posted on 04/16/2002 11:46:51 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Lazamataz
I am somehow troubled by this ruling

You ought to be.

The floodgates of kiddie porn have been opened wide.

'Course the liberfoolians will simply cheer, ride the wave of filth, lift their eyes piously to the sky, and declare they are personally opposed to kiddie porn.

Yeah, what a wonderful, wonderful world.

313 posted on 04/16/2002 1:57:14 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Lazamataz
Let me try to help.

If virtual child pornography is legal then: is it o.k. to show it to children? will we someday see it on t.v as we do adult porn now? can your child's image be made into a virtual porn star?

This decision makes me physically sick to my stomach. Much as clinton's re-election did, or o.j. acquital.

338 posted on 04/16/2002 2:47:11 PM PDT by beGlad
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