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FReeper Lawyers help needed: Website title has come under dispute
Myself | 4/15/02 | Invoman

Posted on 04/15/2002 4:35:32 PM PDT by invoman

Today I received a threatening e-mail:

< it has come to our attention that you are using the name "Minnesota Fishing" for your website. That is a registered trademark (registration # 29748) owned by ______.

Please remove the name immediately from http://www.invominnesota.com/ and any other materials or mediums where you may be using it, or action will be taken to the full extent of the law.

You are responsible for any damages and any deceptive practices damages as well as monetary awards to World Wide WebResults the courts may order due to your misleading use of this trademarked name.

. You are further instructed to notify anyone whom you have done business with, using the "Minnesota Fishing" trademark, to inform them that it is owned by World Wide WebResults and that you are not in fact affiliated with the "Minnesota Fishing" Trademark in any way.

You have 3 working days to comply or further action will be initiated.

Sincerely,
___________>>>>


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; US: North Dakota; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: trademarkwebsite
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To: invoman
I went to the United States Patent and Trademark Office web site and looked for Minnesota Fishing and registration number 29748 and found nothing.

Here's the URL:

http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm

This doesn't mean that I am counseling you in any way.

21 posted on 04/15/2002 5:10:36 PM PDT by Otis Mukinfus
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To: Otis Mukinfus
I KNOW it's not a Federal Trademark, he MAY have a STATE trademark in Minnesota for "Minnesota Fishing", does this cross State lines?
22 posted on 04/15/2002 5:12:35 PM PDT by invoman
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To: invoman
You will have to go to the Patent and Trademark Office but concievably he could be correct that you are violating his trademark.

From http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/whatis.htm...

A trademark is a word, name, symbol or device which is used in trade with goods to indicate the source of the goods and to distinguish them from the goods of others. A servicemark is the same as a trademark except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. The terms "trademark" and "mark" are commonly used to refer to both trademarks and servicemarks.

Trademark rights may be used to prevent others from using a confusingly similar mark, but not to prevent others from making the same goods or from selling the same goods or services under a clearly different mark. Trademarks which are used in interstate or foreign commerce may be registered with the Patent and Trademark Office. The registration procedure for trademarks and general information concerning trademarks is described in a separate pamphlet entitled "Basic Facts about Trademarks".

23 posted on 04/15/2002 5:14:31 PM PDT by JAWs
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To: Cboldt
"C" in a circle indicates copyright.

"R" in a circle indicates registered trademark.

"TM" indicates common law trademark.

and...

"GAL,B" means get a life, buddy. Any fishing site is OK by me!

24 posted on 04/15/2002 5:14:51 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: JAWs
Conceivably, yes.

But in reality...I think the guy is scum, he's deceived his customers in the past...and I think my "Get a Lawyer" response will be the last I hear of him.

25 posted on 04/15/2002 5:16:57 PM PDT by invoman
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To: invoman
You did exactly the correct thing in trying to check up on his usage of the trademark. Trademarks can "lapse" back into the public domain if the usage isn't exercised. Check out this website:

GigaLaw

In other words if his beef is over your use of two words used consecutively at the top of a website, and he can't effectively document or show how he's been actively using those same two words (presumably, on the internet), I wouldn't expect him to have a leg to stand on.

It just sort of doesn't make sense. Does anybody have a trademark on "Idaho potato", or "Wisconsin Cheese"? ("French champagne" is a slightly different case, since the good friar, Dom Perignon, actually invented the process...) I can't imagine how this yutz could ever claim to have an umbrella protection for "Minnesota Fishing". A quick call to someone in PR at the State DNR, in St. Paul, might be really helpful to you. If anyone's got a claim and might be interested in protecting their usage of the term, it's them.

Or maybe this guy issues his own State-approved fishing licenses...

26 posted on 04/15/2002 5:17:52 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n
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To: invoman
As I understand it, any commercial or otherwise public use of a name that is subsequently trademarked is a defense to later trademark challenges.
27 posted on 04/15/2002 5:18:33 PM PDT by fire and forget
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To: Dinsdale
Always a consideration. If the other side wants to go the distance in court, things get expensive.
28 posted on 04/15/2002 5:19:48 PM PDT by fire and forget
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To: invoman
If he has a state trademark, it won't cross state borders.

Also Minnesota Fishing may not be trademarkale as it is so highly descriptive and generic.

29 posted on 04/15/2002 5:20:54 PM PDT by JAWs
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To: drstevej
I do need to GAL! (Get a Life) -- thanks!

Just wanted to correct the comment made above, "The 'Federal R' means a copyright- a different form of IP."

Interesting question though, particularly in internet age -- how far can a state trademark extend.

Also, use of the "R" in a circle, without having a Federal registered trademark, is a no-no (you knew that).

Back to my life now . . . .

30 posted on 04/15/2002 5:31:01 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: invoman
Don't waste another second on this. If he indeed has a case (I'm not a lawyer but was active in licensing, patent, and trademark isues for several years = been there/done that alongside some pretty good NYC attorneys), he would have retained an attorney who would have known enough to send you legal notice via a registered letter on law office letterhead.

Until then you can and should do (or say) nothing until you receive proper notice -- which you then will bring to your new lawyer in a very timely manner.

If you put this in the hands (fins) of the sharks at this early stage they will own you for no good reason from your point of view and may turn this literally into a Federal case at your expense.

There will be plenty of time for that later if this whole affair is anything but a scam. BTW, the question of exactly how and to what extent the claimant has been damaged by you comes to mind, for openers.

Finally, you should contact your (and his) Secretary of State and perhaps the US Department of Commerce (specifically, the PTO and he Federal Trade Commission) to inquire and report re: a possible interstate internet scam. The "authorities" do not take kindly to weasels representing that they have IP protection that everyone else goes to the trouble of obtaining through legal channels (for a fee to the gummint, of course).

Don't lose any sleep over this. All the best....

31 posted on 04/15/2002 5:31:35 PM PDT by tracer
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To: JAWs
Since you are using the term 'Minnesota Fishing' as a descriptive title to your page, you should have no worries. It is not used as your URL or brand name, it is merely a label describing the content on the page. He cannot prevent you from using it anymore than "Minnesota Weather".
32 posted on 04/15/2002 5:31:57 PM PDT by Talkwire
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To: tracer
sweet!

Thanks, man!

33 posted on 04/15/2002 5:42:55 PM PDT by invoman
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To: Talkwire
You are wrong. If it were trademarked and valid then he would be liable for its unauthorized use.
34 posted on 04/15/2002 5:43:13 PM PDT by JAWs
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To: invoman
Call his bluff. I don't think just because of "Minnesota Fishing" gives him any legal right against you. Way too generic. The real problem may come from him having deep pockets. Which I doubt. Put up his web site address and we'll hose em!
35 posted on 04/15/2002 5:46:28 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: jwh_Denver
http://fishingmn.com/
36 posted on 04/15/2002 5:50:12 PM PDT by invoman
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To: invoman
Can't tell you about Minnesota law, but in Michigan you cannot trademark the words Minnesota Fishing. You can only trademark a specific logo containing those words.
37 posted on 04/15/2002 5:57:53 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: invoman
SCAM!! SCAM!!!

From my ISP:

Greetings! Many domain-name registrants are receiving "Domain Dispute Notification" mailings from an entity identifying itself as "XChange Dispute Resolution." The mailings FALSELY state that XChange is an "ICANN authorized arbitrator" (they are NOT) and that the registrant must mail in a "security deposit fee" to defend ownership of the domain name. A scanned copy of the deceptive mailings is available at: http://www.icann.org/announcements/advisory-exh-08apr02.htm Registrants who receive the notice should contact an appropriate governmental law enforcement/consumer protection agency to report the incident. You should NOT send money as requested by this notice, as this is a complete scam. If you have any doubt of the legitimacy of ANY mailing or email, regarding your domain name, please contact admin@ for help. Thank you!

38 posted on 04/15/2002 5:58:37 PM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: invoman
I'm no attorney (thank the Lord!) but if I were looking for advice on a similar issue, I would heed tracers's advice in reply #31. It sounds spot on!
39 posted on 04/15/2002 5:59:25 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: invoman
His site is titled "Fishing Minnesota". Guy is dyslexic!
40 posted on 04/15/2002 6:09:43 PM PDT by jwh_Denver
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