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Bad Kids in Class [Palm Beach teachers: 'We leave teaching because of kids' bad behavior.']
The Palm Beach Post ^ | April 14, 2002 | S. Colavecchio and K. Miller

Posted on 04/15/2002 5:52:12 AM PDT by summer

Bad kids in class

By Shannon Colavecchio and Kimberly Miller, Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

During an unruly school assembly at Forest Hill High, a student hit veteran English teacher Tadziu Trotsky upside the head as he tried to maintain order. The strike left his temple swollen.

Trotsky has watched students tear down blinds in his classroom and walked in to find their obscene messages written on the walls.

He has been cursed at countless times and called unprintable names by students who didn't feel like doing his assignments or following his orders.

"After a while, you don't want to say anything to the kids because you're afraid of what they'll do," he said.

Little by little during his 35-year teaching career, Trotsky's excitement for teaching great literary works waned in the face of these increasingly defiant students, who are too busy calling him names and destroying the classroom to care much about Othello and Robert Frost.

By the time he left the school in 1996, even the honors students were coming in with bad attitudes.

"It was awful, gut-wrenching really," said Trotsky, who now teaches at the Sabal Palm alternative school in West Palm Beach. Sabal Palm is one of 29 district alternative education programs, established especially for students with repeated, serious discipline problems.

Ironically, Trotsky finds the teaching is more tolerable at Sabal Palm because the school is strict enough and students' time managed tight enough that it cuts down on discipline problems.

During interviews with dozens of Palm Beach County teachers and school district officials, The Palm Beach Post heard account after account of chaotic classrooms where smart-aleck students make a habit of disobedience -- stealing teachers' attention and disrupting learning for the rest of the children.

Teachers interviewed said student discipline problems are the worst they've ever been, and district records show the number of student disciplinary infractions reported has risen sharply among middle schoolers. Teachers describe schools where administrators brush aside behavior problems for fear of a negative image or they're overwhelmed with other duties, and where parents provide little support to educators. Consider: At Roosevelt Middle School, a student spit in a teacher's coffee, and at West Riviera Elementary, two girls got into a fight so nasty that one smashed a coffee pot to use the sharp edges as a weapon. Students have thrown desks at teachers and threatened to have them beaten up.


Teachers -- often only in private teacher lounges or on the condition they not be identified -- complain that student behavior is their No. 1 problem, and it's getting worse.

Marjorie Haughton, a teacher at Belvedere Elementary in West Palm Beach, hasn't been hit or threatened or called bad names.

But she is leaving her profession this summer after 20 years because she is tired of constantly reprimanding her students and seeing her classroom control tactics fizzle amid students who are "deceitful."

She used to put marbles in jars, and the team of students who got the most marbles for good behavior would win a prize. Then students started putting their own marbles in the jars behind her back. If she wrote points on the blackboard for the teams to rack up, some student would brush by them "on accident" and erase the points.

"I'm tired of playing those games," she said. "It's a doggy biscuit training thing. If they don't see you holding the biscuit, they won't do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do."

School records for the past two school years -- 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 -- show unruly student behavior rose districtwide, up to 211,082 incidents last year from 205,605 incidents the year before.

It's difficult for teachers to teach and students to learn amid the misbehavior of a comparatively small number of children wreaking large amounts of havoc on the classroom.

Those unruly few cost the district $18.3 million each year in alternative education programs for them.


School officials attribute the deepening problem to a variety of factors: district administrators afraid they'll be sued for disciplining too harshly; principals, afraid of the "bad school" label, who downplay teachers' concerns; a societal shift that has left educators, in the eyes of both parents and students, at the bottom of the totem pole of respect; and broken families run by dysfunctional parents or relatives who don't know how to raise children.

Some have problems at home

Consider from a student's perspective:

A child at Okeeheelee Middle School started acting out. When administrators investigated, the student was found to be living by himself in a trailer home after his mother left him. A little girl at Barton Elementary has dreams about killing people. A grandmother is raising eight children, one of whom is falling asleep in class because she has to help take care of her siblings.

"In the old days, when I was in school, teachers got classrooms where students were ready and willing to learn," said Alison Adler, director of the district's Safe Schools Center. "Now you get students with barriers like being behind academically, coming from unstable homes. They get frustrated and they act out."

Adler conceded it's mostly discipline problems -- and not low salaries or the school violence concerns that have garnered so much attention -- that beat down teachers and prompt many of them to flee the profession.

"The bulk of the problems in our classrooms are the three D's: disruptive behavior, disorderly conduct, disrespectful language," Adler said.

Discipline is especially problematic in middle schools, according to a Palm Beach Post analysis of school district figures, based on incidents reported by school administrators.

Students in the district's middle schools last year committed 108,630 incidents, from stealing and pulling a false fire alarm to cheating and battery. That averages to three incidents for every middle school student.

Most significantly, just over two-thirds of those incidents -- 75,970 -- were discipline problems affecting the classroom: disruptive behavior, disobedience and insubordination, rules violations and disrespectful language.

Last year's incidents in those categories marked a 13 percent increase from the 1999-2000 year, when administrators reported 89,959 incidents, or 2.6 incidents for every middle school student. Of that year's total, 66,012 incidents reported were for disruptive behavior, disobedience and insubordination, rules violations and disrespectful language.

The numbers are not as high in elementary and high schools, where reported incidents actually decreased from 1999-2000 to 2000-2001. But students in grades K-5 and 9-12 have the same tendency toward the "three D's" as middle schoolers, according to The Post analysis.

For example, high school administrators last year reported 74,793 incidents, or nearly two incidents per student. Of the incidents, 49,264 were cases of disobedience, disruptive behavior, rules violations and disrespectful language.

In elementary schools, 19,483 of the 27,659 incidents reported last year were in those categories.

Dave Benson of the district's Safe Schools Center, which keeps track of student discipline reports, cautioned that the statistics might not accurately reflect what's going on from one school to the next.

One principal might be vigilant about documenting every student who comes into the principal's office; another might handle incidents like back-talking and cursing without paperwork.

And changes in reporting requirements from year to year have left many administrators confused about how to document incidents, Benson said. Just this year, district officials unveiled a new, more uniform reporting form for administrators that has a host of new categories, including "repetitive disobedience" and "disruptive play."

Teachers counter that some administrators aren't confused; they just don't report everything because they don't want to paint a less-than-rosy picture of their schools.

Action taken immediately

Egret Lake Elementary Principal Amy Sansbury said she tries to handle discipline problems immediately and has even hired a special teacher whose only job is to work with misbehaving students.

"We need to be able to provide teachers with the means to be able to teach the whole time they are in the classroom," Sansbury said.

But principals also admit that support is inconsistent.

Ellyn Smith, president-elect of the Florida Association of Elementary and Middle School Principals, said problems with contacting parents sometimes can make it appear that the administration is dragging its heels on discipline issues.

Most principals address problems based on the severity of the incident, Smith said. This could leave teachers with minor misbehavior issues waiting while bigger problems are addressed.

"The teacher may feel that it should be dealt with immediately, but there could be extenuating circumstances that delay the issue," Smith said.

Middle school special education teacher Jay Back said he spends 30 percent of his time dealing with student behavior. That's 16 minutes in each class period, leaving just 34 minutes for actual instruction.

During a year's time, maintaining student discipline eats up 48 hours from each of Back's classes.

Students who repeatedly misbehave in class also carry a hefty price tag for taxpayers.

If the students are placed in one of the district's 29 alternative education programs, the annual individual cost to educate them could climb from about $5,150 to $8,051.

Nearly 2,300 Palm Beach County students are now in alternative education programs, whose annual budgets total $18.3 million. Much of that money goes to keeping class sizes at 17 students.

The majority of alternative education schools, some of which are run by the Department of Juvenile Justice or contracted out to private companies, are for students with discipline problems.

And there's no shortage of applicants. Nearly 800 students were reviewed for alternative education seats before the beginning of this semester, recommended for placement by frustrated administrators or parents.

"Alternative education is expensive, and if you want to help kids, you need funding," said Shelley Vana, president of Palm Beach County Classroom Teachers Association. "We don't want teachers worrying that if they put a student out of their classroom, another teacher in the school will have to handle it. We want the student put in a school where they'll get help."

Superintendent Art Johnson says maintaining discipline requires a constant vigil.

"Curriculum is the lifeblood of the school, and discipline is the backbone, the spine that holds things up," Johnson said. "If you don't have that discipline, that structure, learning doesn't happen."

A no-nonsense system can be implemented districtwide, but "it takes a considerable amount of time when you're talking about 150 schools," led by administrators with different styles and levels of experience, he said.

Teachers must set the tone

Education experts say teachers must set the tone of the classroom from the first day. Yet in most colleges and universities, courses in classroom management aren't required for a teaching certificate. Moreover, teachers say student behavior shouldn't be all their responsibility.

Where are the parents, they ask.


"You simply can't put this all on teachers," said University of Virginia professor Robert Pianta, who specializes in classroom management and student behavior.

Sometimes, the problem lies in the parents, who can be as ill behaved as the students, Pianta said.

"I think every principal has had the experience when a child gets in trouble, we call the parents and they just come in and scream at us," said Terry Costa, principal of Christa McAuliffe Middle in suburban Boynton Beach. "I can't imagine my parents ever doing that. Years ago, I think there was a respect that entire families, our society, instilled for teachers."


But the problems vary from school to school and classroom to classroom.

Harry Winkler, a teacher at Forest Hill High since 1972, says his students are increasingly apathetic and disinterested in learning, but they generally don't misbehave.

Scott McNichols, a 26-year-old teacher at Westward Elementary School in West Palm Beach, said his fifth-grade students are so well behaved he rarely has to raise his voice.

He said he sets a serious tone in his classroom from day one and follows through with consequences for each student who breaks a rule.

"Every year, of course, it's something new," McNichols said. "Behavior management is one of those things where you just have to try different things and see what works for you."

Staff writer Mary Ellen Flannery and database editor Christine Stapleton contributed to this report.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: educationnews; florida; jebbush; publicschools; studentconduct
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To: summer
The liberal answer is usually that the root cause is poverty, and that you can solve the problem by spending money on it. That clearly isn't the case here. Palm Beach is pretty affluent, and I'm sure the school budget is substantial. The basic problem is quite clear: the working-out of the knee-jerk, anti-authoritarian attitudes of the sixties. Parents who neglect their responsibilities or simply disappear; a society that refuses to discipline children and may threaten to jail a parent for spanking his child; trial lawyers who feed on these self-centered attitudes; school authorities who refuse to back up their teachers because they don't want to draw criticism; parents who encourage their children's bad behavior in school instead of helping teachers discipline them (which used to be part of the basic educational process). Needless to say, Palm Beach is a stronghold of liberal fecklessness.
21 posted on 04/15/2002 6:28:25 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: summer
And, it costs a ton of money to then place these kids in alternative schools.

I don't believe that it should be considered a "right" to go to a public school. If you get yourself kicked out, you should be forced to find your own "alternative schools" at your own expense.

In Taiwan, the public schools are separated by skill level. A student must take a national exam that is used to deterimine which public school you'll be accepted to. All the top students will be in the same school, average students will be in another school, etc. This national exam is given before entering junior high school and high school.

Also, a teacher will visit the student's home if the student is having disipline or academic problems.

Students are responsible for cleaning the school, including the restrooms. Each class is assigned a specific area that must clean. Areas of responsibility are rotated to different classes each week. The area is inspected and results are posted for each class. No teacher wants her class to be near the bottom of the list. I bet American students would consider this abuse.

Teachers have more respect in Taiwan. I believe the American teachers will not start getting respect again until a fundamental change in how we approach education is achieved.

22 posted on 04/15/2002 6:31:16 AM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: summer
The only natural response is to bring back strict enforcement of the rules & discipline (with checks & balances instituted to prevent abuses). Basically, the schools need to publish a list of offenses with maximum punishments prescribed (paddeling, detention, expulsion, etc). The parents must then sign a form stating that they will abide by the schools decisions & not sue in the event that their child is disciplined. Refusal to sign sends their child to a "special school" which in form resembles a state prision where the teachers & students are "protected" from each other.

Short of that, my kids are going to private school or else we'll homeschool.
23 posted on 04/15/2002 6:33:19 AM PDT by Sword_of_Gideon
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To: summer
After 8th grade, if a kid can't pass the tests or is a discipline problem, let the kid take a leave of absence -- and go out and work 40 hours per week in a low paying service job.

Amen! Preach it! After the Columbine massacre, there were some excellent articles by Leon Bottstein & others about "the abolition of high school." My view is that compulsory education should end at 14, and that employment should be legal at 14 as well. High school could still be funded by the various state gov'ts, but it should be *by entrance examination only* (whether vocational or college-prep academic) and those who screw up either academically or behaviorally should be thrown out on their ears. True, this doesn't help with the middle-school chaos, but perhaps students should be "tracked" at 6th grade to determine whether they go to the equivalent of middle-school "reform" school, or go to a high-school-prep program.

24 posted on 04/15/2002 6:38:37 AM PDT by ikanakattara
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To: Tai_Chung
Teachers in this country have reaped the lack of respect for their profession because they have been so overly concerned with taking the place of the parents in so many areas.

If the parents aren't doing their job then the school takes over. The school makes certain that the kids have breakfast and lunch, they make sure their self-esteem is good, they teach them about sex ed and how important it is to be an environmentally concious person. And if the parents can't discipline their kids then they just expect the school to take care of that, also. Plus provide social interaction and meaningful relationships, etc.

So what is the result? The parents who are not very good parents anyway just expect the schools to do more and more of the raising of their kids.

It's a situation that came about because of genuinely good motives on the part of educators but it just shows that you can't change human nature. If you want parents and kids to be more responsible, then you must give them more responsibility, not take more away.

25 posted on 04/15/2002 6:51:31 AM PDT by webstersII
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To: umgud
Even Bush shouts that we can leave no child behind. My position is that there are a lot of children that will not learn and be productive no matter what you do.

In earlier generations, a kid who got a good education would graduate to get a good job, and be able to support his parents in their old age. A student who didn't learn would go on to be a burden. Parents had a big incentive to get kids to be cooperative and studious.

A welfare parent who knows her kid is never going to be an asset to her, and would make more money by dropping out of school at 12 and becoming a drug runner, has no such incentive

26 posted on 04/15/2002 6:52:25 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: Sword_of_Gideon
My son is going to a charter school in Palm Beach Co. and I had to sign an agreement. The parents were informed at the first meeting, they either behave or they are out. They were some at that meeting I never saw again or their green and pink haired kids.
27 posted on 04/15/2002 6:52:55 AM PDT by not-alone
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: ikanakattara
You can be sure lowering the school age for graduation won't happen. Many states are in the process of raising it to 17 instead of 16. Missouri is one of those states. It would be interesting to know how many of these kids have been in daycare and then the public school. They are the ones that are angry at the authorities because they had to leave home every day. Little kids want their mama. I don't feel sorry for the public school's discipline problem, just the kids. Our society has screwed them up with liberal ignorance and immoral living.
29 posted on 04/15/2002 6:55:55 AM PDT by Cowgirl
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To: summer;*Education News
Bump
30 posted on 04/15/2002 6:57:10 AM PDT by EdReform
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To: summer
Private school kids don't act like this. Too bad all kids can't be private school kids.
31 posted on 04/15/2002 6:58:22 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: summer
Bump for later comment when I have more time.
32 posted on 04/15/2002 7:00:22 AM PDT by Truth Addict
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To: webstersII
Teachers in this country have reaped the lack of respect for their profession...

I'm sure the fact that a child could hit a teacher and be back in his classroom after only a 3-day suspension has a lot to do with this lack of respect. If children know they can curse, disrupt class, and even physically abuse a teacher with only minor consequences then you can see how teachers get little respect.

33 posted on 04/15/2002 7:01:48 AM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: summer
Oddly, we were told these problems would disappear when the paddle was removed from the schools because it taught that violence was OK. Of course, the experts were wrong.
34 posted on 04/15/2002 7:02:46 AM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: not-alone
I would have no problem with that.... I remember growing up that the standing rule at our house was that if you got into trouble at school & were punished, then you got a double of the same punishment when you got home. In those days the school would inform the parents of incidents at school (plus my dad was a teacher so he knew how to paddle, I definitly didn't want to be getting 3 sets of whippings, 1 from the school & 2 from home.... which was a tremendous deterent to acting up). If my kids act up at school, not only do I want the school to be able to do what's necessary to instill respect & obedience, but in addition (& more importantly) I want to be informed so that I can take measures at home to insure it doesn't occur again.
35 posted on 04/15/2002 7:05:29 AM PDT by Sword_of_Gideon
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To: Ditter
Just exactly how isolated is the world you live in? Do you think all private schools have good kids? Perhaps you should set foot in the real world.

My wife has taught at both a Catholic School, and now in a public school. She taught the Catholic School kids for 4 years, and is in her 4th year of the public school (within 2 miles of each other).

She says there is really no difference between the kids. You have good and bad kids (and good and bad parents) at both schools. No one school has a lock on good or bad kids.

The discipline at the Catholic School was a joke because the principal was afraid of irritating the parents who were big donors. The principal at the public school is tough, and commands more respect than the Catholic School principal ever dreamed of.

That's not to say every Catholic/Public School is the same way (I'm sure its reversed in some cases), but to make a blanket statement like that is idiotic.

36 posted on 04/15/2002 7:05:37 AM PDT by frmrda
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To: summer
walked in to find their obscene messages written on the walls

You see, they really can spell!!
37 posted on 04/15/2002 7:06:10 AM PDT by aardvark1
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To: Skooz
On the last point, my wife was slugged by a student as she was escorting him to the principal's office.

My mom, a science teacher for 20 years, was threatened by a girl who put her fist under her chin and told her she was going to kill her. (This was at a small town school, the town had only 3000 people.) My mom retired.

38 posted on 04/15/2002 7:07:36 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: summer
I have a friend who served as a peace corp teacher in Cameroon back in the late eighties. She taught a class of (I am not making this up) sixty students. Early in her service, she began having a serious problem with students not completing their assignments. One day she got so fed up, she sent someone to get the principal. When he arrived, all of the slackers--at least half the class-- were identified and sent out of the room. They were given machetes or something similar and were taken outside where they were made, for the remainder of the school day, to cut back the brush that was encroaching on the school yard. She never had another discipline problem.

When she returned to the states, she taught high school math and physics for several years. After tiring of the discipline and attitude problems of the students, she went back to school and completed a degree in engineering and left teaching for good.

I "taught" high school French, English, and journalism for two years. I got fed up for the same reason, went back to school and got a degree in nursing.

The schools are broken, but don't tell my husband...he thinks their great for socializing kids :)

39 posted on 04/15/2002 7:10:51 AM PDT by missycocopuffs
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To: Lizavetta; wasp69; cantfindagoodscreenname; BallandPowder; wyopa; joathome; Momto2; RipeforTruth...
Thanks for the ping, Artist!
40 posted on 04/15/2002 7:12:39 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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