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Girl found living in garage of upscale home
AP ^ | April 12, 2002 | AP

Posted on 04/12/2002 9:53:41 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad

Edited on 04/12/2004 5:35:05 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) - A 41-year-old businessman was arrested after police learned that he allegedly kept an Egyptian girl as a servant, made her sleep in a garage and prevented her from going to school.

Abdelnaser Ibrahim, 41, was arrested and booked for investigation of felony child endangerment and infringing upon the girl's liberty. He is free on $150,000 bail.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


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To: Cultural Jihad
Of course, we are all still waiting for the L.P. to publish their famous "Shun List" of child slavers so as to shun them properly. Rational people might want to give the "Shun List" a trial run before overthrowing a millennia of jurisprudence for the flakey ideology of moral-liberal humanists.

So far we've been having a nice conversation, so I'd really appreciate if you wouldn't use inflammatory language ("flakey", etc.)

Shunning actually has been used successfully in this country. In most parts of the country, it's still legal to walk up to a black person and call them the n-word. But not too many people do it, because to do so gets one branded as a racist, and that label comes with a lot of negative- but not legal- consequences.

We can also look at boycotts by the NAACP or pro-life groups. Many powerful corporations have changed their policies in response to non-legal pressure from these groups. Race relations and abortion are both extremely controversial subjects. Is it so unreasonable to believe that people would be able to work together voluntarily to put an end to something like the indentured servitude of children?

21 posted on 04/12/2002 11:35:39 PM PDT by timm22
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To: timm22

Is it so unreasonable for the members of a society to enact societal sanctions involving the use of force to protect the rights of its most vulnerable members?

22 posted on 04/12/2002 11:39:34 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: timm22
Especially where you live I guess. Gosh that sounds horrific!
23 posted on 04/12/2002 11:50:00 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: timm22

The L.P. chairman in 1834 is distributing "Shun Lists" of people in the community who engage in
child slavery, drug use and trafficking, pornography, obscenity, sodomy, homosexuality, bestiality,
necrophilia, prostitution, promiscuity, perversion, and abortion. This public service of the L.P.
is funded by the sales of pardons from people who would otherwise be listed.

24 posted on 04/12/2002 11:54:01 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: no-s
"There's no need to invent reasons to disrespect the Libertarian Party.
There's plenty of reason not to trash up FR with halfwit nonsense."

That is a paradox.

25 posted on 04/12/2002 11:55:14 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Cultural Jihad
Is it so unreasonable for the members of a society to enact societal sanctions involving the use of force to protect the rights of its most vulnerable members?

No it is not, as long as those sanctions are used to protect rights. Libertarians recognize the protection of rights as a legitimate function of government.

And in this particular case, I think such sanctions would be justified. Twelve-year-olds lack the maturity and ability to make decisions like these. This is one of those areas where parents can not make the decision for them either, any more than they could decide to make their child engage in sexual activity.

26 posted on 04/13/2002 12:00:08 AM PDT by timm22
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To: Cultural Jihad
The 41-year-old Ibrahim, who owns a steel export business and a small hotel, posted $150,000 bond Wednesday and returned to his home.

Police said the girl began working for Ibrahim's family as a maid in Egypt when she was 8. Eighteen months ago, she arrived in Irvine, joining the family, which includes three girls, 11, 14 and 17; and twin boys, 7.

Although the boys were regularly seen whizzing around the neighborhood on bicycles, neighbors said they rarely caught a glimpse of the 12-year-old girl.

Unlike Ibrahim's children, the girl did not attend school and did not speak English. Those neighbors who occasionally saw her told authorities they saw her through windows hosing down patio furniture or dusting inside the home.

Teaming up with police, social workers and investigators went to the family's $660,000 home in the exclusive Northpark section, which is adorned with statuettes and paintings in ornate frames.

Inside the garage, police said they found starkly different living conditions.

About a third of the garage had been converted without city permission into the girl's bedroom, police said.

Stokke said the girl slept in the garage only because there was no room in the house.

And he said Ibrahim's support of her and her family is part of a well-established Egyptian practice of the well-to-do helping children from poor families.

Khaled Abou El Fadl, a professor of Islamic and Middle Eastern Law at UCLA's School of Law, said that although the practice is common in Egypt, it's a violation of that country's laws and has come under increasing domestic criticism.

"[Egyptians] know that this practice is not transferable to the United States or Europe and that it would qualify as child abuse," he said.

The servants, known as "Khadamah," usually range in age from 9 to 16 and often are forced to sleep in kitchens, El Fadl said.

27 posted on 04/13/2002 12:00:13 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: A CA Guy
Especially where you live I guess. Gosh that sounds horrific!

I'm not sure what you are saying.

Are the schools in my area like the hypothetical description I gave? Some of them are. And yes, they are quite horrific.

28 posted on 04/13/2002 12:02:45 AM PDT by timm22
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To: timm22

The main clue here is that those horrific schools are populated with children whose parents live personally irresponsible lives which the L.P. lauds as 'rights.'

29 posted on 04/13/2002 12:06:09 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Very cute. I guess you're more interested in making humorous jabs than in having a mature discussion.
30 posted on 04/13/2002 12:07:02 AM PDT by timm22
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To: timm22
That's terrible. Granted in our area we have to fend off homosexuals trying to create tolerance to children which is bunk. But it sounds like by you they have even worse in your schools.
31 posted on 04/13/2002 12:08:43 AM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: timm22
Well, the L.P. "Shun List" says there's a "Tim" on Broadway Street who slits the throats of puppies for fun. Maybe I ought to consider you that same fellow, eh? Anyone got a hot branding iron?

Injustice breeds vigilantism, which in turn further thwarts justice.

32 posted on 04/13/2002 12:12:40 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
The main clue here is that those horrific schools are populated with children whose parents live personally irresponsible lives which the L.P. lauds as 'rights.'

What parts of the parents' irresponsible lives are lauded as rights?

33 posted on 04/13/2002 12:14:06 AM PDT by timm22
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To: Cultural Jihad
Injustice breeds vigilantism, which in turn further thwarts justice.

Would you admit that racism is unjust?

And yet, no one but a handful of liberals suggests making it illegal. How is it then that we are not engulfed in a race war in this country?

34 posted on 04/13/2002 12:18:24 AM PDT by timm22
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To: timm22

Just about any evil is considered a 'right' by the humanist ideologues. Adultery wrecks families and impoverishes women and children, but the L.P. would call that a 'right'. The same with drug abuse, or promiscuity, or any other evil behavior which brings with it evil repercussions. Ideologies which tolerate, wink at, or turn a blind eye to behaviors which destroy the foundation of our society, which is the family, deserve the scorn they have earned.

35 posted on 04/13/2002 12:19:40 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: timm22

Yes, racism is unjust when it is acted upon. There are laws against discrimination, which the L.P. calls for the repeal of, by the way.

36 posted on 04/13/2002 12:21:32 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Just about any evil is considered a 'right' by the humanist ideologues. Adultery wrecks families and impoverishes women and children, but the L.P. would call that a 'right'.

I'd call adultery "breaking a contract." Breaking contracts is not a right.

The same with drug abuse, or promiscuity, or any other evil behavior which brings with it evil repercussions. Ideologies which tolerate, wink at, or turn a blind eye to behaviors which destroy the foundation of our society, which is the family, deserve the scorn they have earned.

Okay. So do you suggest making promiscuity illegal? What about breaking the fifth commandment, which also hurts families? Does that become illegal as well?

What about an executive father who is a workaholic? Do we need to impose salary caps to make sure he spends enough time with his family, instead of being a slave to money?

37 posted on 04/13/2002 12:26:05 AM PDT by timm22
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To: Cultural Jihad, A CA Guy
Yes, racism is unjust when it is acted upon.

Therefore, if I call someone the n-word, I should be fined or go to jail?

I'm sorry, but it's getting late here in Texas. I have to get some sleep now. I will try to make my responses tommorow. Have a good night.

38 posted on 04/13/2002 12:29:31 AM PDT by timm22
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To: Cultural Jihad
The Libertarian Party calls this all a private matter between consenting adults, and no bidness of the busy-body neighbors. "It's the responsibility of parents to educate their children, not the employer of their indentured servant-daughter or the public taxpayer," declared Ima Phool, spokesperthing of the L.P.

Show me exactly where any Libertarian (or libertarian) ever said something even remotely related to supporting slavery, and I'll reconsider my membership in the party... Your statement is on par with the radio ads in St Louis a few years ago stating that a vote for republicans meant more church burnings, or the James Byrd dragging ad in TX against President Bush...

You're no better than the DemonRATs here...

Mark

PS, this is the only case of "slavery reperations" that I'd support...

39 posted on 04/13/2002 6:14:54 AM PDT by MarkL
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To: Cultural Jihad
How come I just knew this enslaver was an immigrant from a 3rd world hellhole?

(My apologies to any 3rd world freepers who respect US laws and contribute to society)

40 posted on 04/13/2002 6:19:10 AM PDT by dennisw
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