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Altar boys are paying the price of Vatican II
(London) Telegraph ^ | 12/04/2002 (That's April 12, Brit style) | Stuart Reid

Posted on 04/12/2002 1:40:46 PM PDT by aristeides

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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
So are you saying that for the first 1000 years of the Catholic Church, priests were celibate?
81 posted on 04/12/2002 5:26:29 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: TN Republican
One dollar says that Protestant leaders molest young teenage boys less than half the time that Catholic priests do. Any takers? Cough up the buck. I will cover all bets.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I will very gladly pay. Let's see a study.

On another note, did I just read here that Jesuits have 50% gay men?

Let's see the study. My wallet is wide open. Who wants in?

82 posted on 04/12/2002 5:33:02 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
So are you in the bet, or not? Or will you just quote scripture, which was written when men had wives?
83 posted on 04/12/2002 5:44:10 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: Aliska
"This whole mess is going to boomerang on all Christians in general." That is the general idea according to the marxist Antonio Gramsci.
84 posted on 04/12/2002 5:58:45 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: Domestic Church
"This whole mess is going to boomerang on all Christians in general." That is the general idea according to the marxist Antonio Gramsci

Ah yes, Gramsci. Well I did not mean to imply that because a few bad apples in the catholic church . . . the other spinoffs (denominations) have made their share of mistakes, too. I've read quite a bit about the "communist plot" to take over the church but I think it is lame. Whatever the church is going through is self-inflicted for not sticking to biblical truths especially concerning morality and gross heresies that almost any denomination would have rejected up until the last half century.

Despite having a Christian president, it used to be pc to be a Christian in this country. That is no longer the case.

Actually, there were still fairly good morals among the common people even under communism, much better than what you see today here in the US, no drugs, little stealing, core family values (too much alcoholism), etc. It was the murderous leaders and power-grabbing underlings who perpetrated most of the atrocities.

87 posted on 04/12/2002 7:37:21 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: MonroeDNA
So are you saying that for the first 1000 years of the Catholic Church, priests were celibate?

Many were, but not all. Again, refer to Council of Elvira, 295-302 AD, Canons XXVII and XXXIII.

88 posted on 04/12/2002 8:49:58 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: MonroeDNA
So are you in the bet, or not? Or will you just quote scripture, which was written when men had wives?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I will very gladly pay. Let's see a study.

Did someone put a clause into the bible? As much as I search for it, I can't seem to find it

I've already referred you to Jenkins book Pedophiles and Priests and provided several links to Protestant pedophilia, ephebophilia and sexual misconduct. You do the legwork yourself, or does the lead in your backside prevent that? Perhaps it is the bigotry you harbor that won't allow that to occur. By the way, since you have all the answers, how about giving us the names of the Apostles wives? You can find the answer in Scripture can't you? You want to bet on that? Ever heard of lex continentiae or viri probati and their relation to those receiving Holy Orders in the second, or third, or fourth centuries ...? While you're at it, brush up on an unabridged, uncorrupted Bible, since you have demonstrated that you simply don't know what is and isn't actually contained in Scripture.

89 posted on 04/12/2002 9:11:30 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Goldhammer
Goodness gracious! You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried. From that site:

The Weekend will include:
Prayer
Time to meet others like yourself.
Massage Workshop
Social Time
Quiet Meditation
Eucharist
Relaxed atmosphere

David Birchall is a Jesuit priest who has worked with many gay and lesbian individuals and groups. He has been running similar weekends for ten years.

David currently works at the Jesuit Communication Centre, Dublin, after having spent 13 years at Loyola Hall.

David qualified as a massage therapist at San Francisco School of Massage.

90 posted on 04/12/2002 9:39:57 PM PDT by Palladin
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To: aristeides
I suspect that you'd find that the homo explosion correlates much better with the sexual revolution than with Vatican 2. If homosexual behavior is the untoward characteristic of the modern clergy, I feel that pre-Vatican 2 you had lots of them who were incredibly power hungry, to a degree that can only be described as sick. The sexual revolution, I feel, only changed the vice.
93 posted on 04/13/2002 9:40:11 AM PDT by a history buff
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER;newgeezer
Since every sin dimishes grace,

What does this mean?

95 posted on 04/15/2002 9:30:14 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: biblewonk
It would seem that the statement is pretty straight forward, but I'll give you a more detailed explanation from the Catechism.

1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of His own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:(48)

Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.(49)

48 John 4:14; 7:38-39

49 2 Corinthians 5:17-18

96 posted on 04/15/2002 10:35:56 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of His own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:(48)

I understand it as a gift. Are you saying that it is weakened by sin? What do you mean by deifying? Is baptism the only way to get it?

97 posted on 04/15/2002 10:52:21 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: weikel
Gee maybe they are paying the price for the church ordaining homos.

Or maybe they're paying the price for keeping women out of the hierarchy. After all, men who are exclusively around other men all the time (prison, pirate ships, biker gangs, prolly navy ships) will pretty much end up doing the same kind of stuff with each other regardless of how straight they are.

99 posted on 04/15/2002 11:23:37 AM PDT by in_troth
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To: in_troth
I'm very antifeminist I'd repeal celibacy but not let women in the hierarchy.
100 posted on 04/15/2002 11:36:02 AM PDT by weikel
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