Vatican outrage over church siege

BBC News ^ | April 8 2002 | BBC

[Khepry]

The Vatican has issued a stern warning to Israel to respect religious sites in line with its international obligations, following a gun battle around Bethlehem's besieged Church of the Nativity.

Spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said the Vatican was following events "with extreme apprehension" and trying to establish the truth about the fighting that flared early on Monday.

This is an act of indescribable barbarity, a violation of every law of humanity and civilisation

Father David Jaeger
Franciscan spokesman

Israel says its troops are under orders not to fire at holy places and blamed Palestinian militants for a fire near the church, which is revered by Christians as the birthplace of Jesus Christ.

Several hundred Palestinian gunmen and civilians fleeing Israeli tanks have been holed up in the church complex for nearly a week, along with a group of monks and nuns.

A spokesman for Catholic monks in the Holy Land said earlier that Israeli soldiers were guilty of an "indescribable act of barbarity".

Israel had broken its international obligations and risked "long-term and incalculable" consequences, Father David Jaeger said.

Christian clerics from Jerusalem were kept by Israel from entering Bethlehem on Monday

Speaking from Rome, he said monks at the church had reported damage to "sacred spaces" and evidence that Israeli troops had entered the church.

The Pope, who has urged people to pray for peace in the Middle East, on Monday described the violence in the Holy Land as having reached "unimaginable and intolerable" levels.

Click here for a guide to the Church of the Nativity

The Israeli army says Palestinian gunmen provoked a fire which broke out near the Church of the Nativity on Monday.

Gunmen had opened fire from a belltower, wounding two Israeli border policemen in a nearby rooftop look-out, an army officer told Reuters news agency.

Palestinian civilians in Bethlehem have to contend with an Israeli curfew

He said the Israelis returned fire and a smoke grenade started the blaze in a second-floor meeting hall overlooking the Basilica of St Catherine, adjacent to the Church of the Nativity.

One Palestinian gunman was shot dead in the battle, the Israeli source said.

But a priest inside the church, Father Amjad Sabbara, told the BBC that the Palestinian killed was a police officer who had been trying to douse the flames.

He said the blaze had burned for an hour, destroying a piano, chairs, altar cloths and ceremonial cups.

Father Sabbara estimated that there were 240 people in the church. Some were armed, he said, but they were "not using their arms".

The Mayor of Bethlehem, Hanna Nasser, told the BBC that mosaics inside the Basilica of St Catherine had been "affected by the bullets".

Staying put

The Israeli army has been conducting a major military operation across the West Bank for over a week, in response to a wave of suicide bombings by Palestinian militants.

The army will remain in their place and prevent them [the militants] from evading justice

Ariel Sharon

Israeli Prime Minister

"It really involves going through the cities and refugee camps and taking out the infrastructure of the terrorists: weapons, documents, explosive material, laboratories," army spokesman Captain Jacob Dalal told the BBC.

Israeli troops have been using loudspeakers to demand the surrender of the Palestinians inside the Nativity complex.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said on Monday that his soldiers would not "defile the holiness of the site as the [Palestinians] have" but added that the troops would remain in place until the gunmen inside were captured.

In Britain, Foreign Office Minister Ben Bradshaw described Israeli actions in the area as "totally unacceptable".

The Vatican is reported to be working out an agreement with the Israelis on safe passage for the Palestinians inside the church to the Gaza Strip.

[irishjuggler]

The church didn't have much sucess in keeping the jews alive in WWII, so it really needs to keep it's mouth shut

Interesting. Are you aware that Golda Meir and many other Jewish leaders thanked the Church for its help during the war? Or did you learn history the same place where you learned spelling and grammar?

it's = it is
its = possessive form of it

As I mentioned, I'm in a bad mood.

[Khepry]

Spanish Inquisition?

Not yet but consider:

Secret tribunals, anyone?

If you are not with us - you are against us.

Propaganda departments in the DOD?

Insistence that Arab state suppress their free press?

[Woodkirk]

The Vatican has a lot of churches under siege these days due to the invasion of homosexual childmolesting priests == perhaps they could work out a deal and send them to the Gaza Strip as well.

[demkicker]

It's also rather funny that these same words were spoken by Kofi this morning in his little circus of a news conference in Madrid. (Powell, of course, was a participant.)

"But in the end, isn't there two sides to this conflict? Isn't the Vatican responsible for not defining one side or the other, let alone take a side, save for God's side? A militantist Vatican is an evil that is asking for it."

Wise words.... It's time for the Catholic church to cash in their credibility card.

[Khepry]

The vast majority of Catholics and Christians know who's at fault here, and that the Vatican is out to lunch on this one.

The vast majority of Catholics and Christians live outside of the United State and the media bias and filter of the Isaeli lobby whose job is to keep Americans dumb and dumber as to the fact that Isael has hijacked American domestic and foreign policy. Look at the lap dog behavior of Powell and Bush in recent days: They bark, but their master doen't listen!

[puddle_duck]

Posted on 4/10/02 5:58 AM Central by puddle_duck Monk Seriously Wounded By Gunfire in Bethlehem (IsraelNN.com) A monk was seriously wounded by gunfire earlier in PA-controlled Bethlehem. He is listed in serious condition according to officials in the trauma unit of Jerusalem’s Hadassah Hospital. Shortly following his arrival and implementation of life-saving procedures, the victim was taken into emergency surgery. Military sources are reporting the monk was shot by PLO terrorists inside the Church of the Nativity where they continue to hold hostages in a standoff with IDF troops.

[mewzilla]

What free press?

[American in Israel]

The actions of the Israelis at the church are reprehensible...it is putting me over the impartiality edge.

Don't worry, you are way over the edge already. Where is the outrage at 150 terrorists blowing in the church door and holding the Priests and Nuns hostage? How about the outrage of the Palestinians using the church for a bunker and firing at the IDF outside through the windows? NOT A PEEP!

But the horrible barbarous JOO's have the audacity to PARK OUTSIDE the CHURCH and demand the terrorists do the impossible, “C out with your hands up, and you won’t be hurt." Go join the Pope in the dunce corner, I hear he is planning the next inquisition and may need your help.

[Congressman Billybob]

"Free press in the Arab states"? You've got some strong stuff in your hookah this morning. The Arab states are all tin-pot dictators who control their citizens by force and pocket the wealth. No wonder they get on so well with the Palestinian Authority. They admire its governmental model.

LOL.

Congressman Billybob

Click here to fight Shays-Meehan.

Click here for latest column: "This Column is About Truth."

[BlackVeil]

You asked "Why can't Sharon pull out of the West bank now?" I suppose because he hasn't accomplished much. Not in terms of the real business of security and warfare - control, power, effective intelligence. To me, all this looks like its going to be an even bigger blunder than the 1982-99 Lebanon fiasco. You are right about the historical incidents. What does the future hold? ... sigh.

[AmericaUnited]

A spokesman for Catholic monks in the Holy Land said earlier that Israeli soldiers were guilty of an "indescribable act of barbarity".

The Pope, who has urged people to pray for peace in the Middle East, on Monday described the violence in the Holy Land as having reached "unimaginable and intolerable" levels.

This is just so utterly pathetic!!! Where was the hysterical outrage when innocent people were getting blown to bits??? Where is the hysterical outrage when young Palestinians are talked into committing murder and suicide???

God cares about people, not some pile of dead stones. The Church has shown it cares more about it’s shrines and traditions rather than people. How morally bankrupt!

[Khepry]

Military sources are reporting

Are you actually fool enough to believe every IDF propaganda release without independent verification?

"Lt. Calley reported that they came under heavy enemy fire at MyLai village and that his company returned ..."

[2sheep]

>I deplore the loss of life, Jewish, Christian, Arab, unaligned. And no one life is any more or less important than another.  The world situation is horrible.

The Bible clearly indicates that God is angry with the wicked every day, that there are those who are worthy only of death, that the blood of innocents cries from the ground for justice and that God hears!  Justice cannot equate the life of a murderer with that of an innocent!

"...But here's the key point: Good can tolerate evil – but evil can't tolerate good. That's why the U.S. could co-exist indefinitely with communism, but communism couldn't stand to co-exist with freedom. Since communism is based on a lie, freedom would always expose that lie for what it really is.

"The Jews in Israel could co-exist peacefully with the Arabs forever. But the corrupt Arab and Muslim leadership – as distinct from the many decent Arabs and Muslims – have regarded the very existence of Israel as a hot dagger twisting in the heart of the Arab world since it was re-established on May 14, 1948. That's why the very next day, Israel was attacked by the armies of five of her Arab neighbors in an intended war of annihilation.

"It's pretty simple, really. The persecutors feel compelled to put out the light, since the light causes them agony."   Source

>And rhetoric that denigrates all Palestinians and maligns their decency and aspirations as a national group is not helping the situation.

I spent quite a bit of time reviewing the pictures of the Palestinians murder victims last night here:   We Should Not Forget   -- Here is one picture of an innocent murdered family which  I found particularly poignant.  They are only four of 10 murdered and over 50 injured:

10 killed and over 50 injured in a suicide bombing, Saturday night, in the Bet Israel neighborhood in Jerusalem. The bomber detonated
a powerful explosive in the Ultra-Orthodox neighborhood as residents were leaving synagogues at the end of the Jewish Shabbat.
The bomber stood next to a group of mothers standing with their babies in strollers at the entrance to a guesthouse.
5 members of 1 family, from Rishon Letzion, were killed in the blast. - March 2, 2002.

Then I spent some time reading this thread today:   IDF soldiers killed by 10 yr. old boy

DECENT people do NOT train their babies to grow up to be MURDERERS!  The Palestinians are not a national group.  There will be no STATE.  The Bible says they will persist and then they will be STUBBLE!

Ob 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

[arielb]

the "free" press that describes Jews making Purim pastries out of the blood of children

[smith288]

I think you are missing something. Bush is not a friend of Arafats. He never was. He has always spoke critical of his leadership skills and conviction to peace. But Bush cant simply badmouth Arafat without dolting a little over to the Israel side, whom he is a great ally, both spiritually and literallly. It doesnt make sense for Bush to not put on this mean face when Israel is still in the W.Bank. He has to look at least slightly impartial being a world leader. There is winks to the other side of the table to Sharon while Bush is saying, "Pull out.".

Thats my take anyways.

[mewzilla]

Yeah. I know. But I'm with Congressman Billybob. What's Khepry been smokin'?

[arielb]

Euroweed

[AppyPappy]

This is an act of indescribable barbarity, a violation of every law of humanity and civilisation

Worse that pedophilia?

OK that was wrong. I'm sorry.