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The history -- who ruled Palestine?
Diversity Watch ^

Posted on 04/08/2002 12:52:26 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

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To: sanchmo
Actually none of this very interesting history matters since currently Israel is controlled by the Jews. Palistines currently are losing some of their control but they have their own actions to blame and Isreal is just defending themselves.
21 posted on 04/08/2002 1:37:06 PM PDT by Khepera
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To: Steve_Seattle
The precipitating factor was an Egyptian blockade of Israeli shipping in the gulf. - - - - - So who started it depends on how you look at it.

Isn't a blockade of one nations ports by another nation generally agreed to be an act of war?

22 posted on 04/08/2002 1:40:29 PM PDT by FairWitness
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
In other words, there never has been a Palestinian homeland in all of human History! Thank you Diversity Watch. Nice to know that you're good for something (occasionally).
23 posted on 04/08/2002 1:42:06 PM PDT by Destructor
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To: rdb3
That "rocky scrub land" as you call it is now a flower in the desert

You forget to mention the Israeli policy of selective deforestation of olive groves.

Regards

J.R.

24 posted on 04/08/2002 1:49:18 PM PDT by NMC EXP
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
I would expect "History" to be altered by a Pro-Arab web site....Hello?
25 posted on 04/08/2002 1:51:26 PM PDT by SolomonSemperFi
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To: Steve_Seattle
This is a somewhat complicated issue.

Simply mobilizing along the borders, but not firing a shot, is EFFECTIVELY starting a war with Israel.

Israel has a far smaller population than the neighboring Arab states, and thus has to mobilize a far higher % of its population for war. The Israelis are unable to mobilize their entire army and keep it mobilized for more than a few weeks, maybe a month, before their entire economy would collapse because there's no work getting done. However, the Arab states can stay mobilized far longer. So, basically, Israel generally HAS to strike first; they can't sit around mobilized forever.

In 1967, technically, the Israelis "started" the war because they fired the first shots; The reality was that they really couldn't do much else.

The Arab states are aware they'll get struck preemptively if they even begin to mobilize in a serious way; hence, they don't do so.

26 posted on 04/08/2002 1:56:00 PM PDT by John H K
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To: Sabramerican
Is it true that some of these present day Palestinians may be descendants of the Edomites [Idumeans, the most famous of which being the baby-killing Herod] who were brought into the land by the Romans to help conquer the Jews and drive them out of the Israel?
27 posted on 04/08/2002 1:56:40 PM PDT by Woodkirk
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To: tomahawk
Palestinians are Semites, genetically virtually indistinguishable from Jews, both Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazi Jews.
28 posted on 04/08/2002 2:01:02 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
You omitted:

1963: the Ga'ould seed the area with "Palestinian" Pod People to cause trouble.

29 posted on 04/08/2002 2:02:18 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: Sabramerican
Zionist invasion?

Since Arafat was born in Cairo, how did he get to be Palastinian?

30 posted on 04/08/2002 2:03:39 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: germanicus
guess this land is up for grabs to whoever can kick the most butt.

Yep...and so is the rest of the world. None of us sprouted from the soil. Conquest is the way of the world.

31 posted on 04/08/2002 2:04:01 PM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"Sept 2000 -- Intense violence escalates. More than 400 people die in Israel in a matter of 14 weeks (380 Palestinians)."

Another, small oversight. Arafat turns down 'Peace Accord' by which all Israeli, and neutral accounts gave the Palestinians way too much.

32 posted on 04/08/2002 2:05:14 PM PDT by d14truth
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To: John H K
In 1967, technically, the Israelis "started" the war because they fired the first shots;

They wiped out the entire Egyptian Air Force, bombs loaded, on the ground just as they were gassing up and heading to combat. The Mosad knew their flight plan. Good intel wins wars, and in an area as compact as that, it pays to have a hair trigger.

33 posted on 04/08/2002 2:09:16 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
3,000 years since David and Goliath, and the 'test' of the God of Israel continues. Is another 'rebuke' to the 'Chosen People' to be forthcoming as THEY await the Messiah? Matter of fact, those of us who proclaim Jesus as the Christ, aren't faring all that well these days either. Witness, abortion, adultery, and divorce.
34 posted on 04/08/2002 2:10:56 PM PDT by d14truth
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To: pgkdan
You're right. 5000 years of written history has shown that civilization is just the result of one tribe defeating another. And it will never end.
35 posted on 04/08/2002 2:16:13 PM PDT by germanicus
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To: John H K
In 1967, technically, the Israelis "started" the war because they fired the first shots

In 1967, the Arabs "technically" started the war by blockading an international waterway to Israeli shipping (a recognized act of war). The Jordanians were even more "technical" by firing the first shots at their armistice lines with Israel.

36 posted on 04/08/2002 2:18:21 PM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
cool timeline, thanks.
37 posted on 04/08/2002 2:19:53 PM PDT by Delbert
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Have my eyes gone bad, or was the year 1973 left out?
38 posted on 04/08/2002 2:20:38 PM PDT by LRS
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
bump for history
39 posted on 04/08/2002 2:27:18 PM PDT by Fzob
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To: sanchmo
A little more history.

-----------------------------------------------------

Arab Jews lost in the negotiations

By SUSAN TAYLOR MARTIN

© St. Petersburg Times, published August 3, 2000


JERUSALEM -- In the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, there's one big issue that's not even on the table. Yet it's very much on the minds of thousands of Jews -- those who left their homes in Arab countries after Israel's 1948 war of independence.

The flight of an estimated 800,000 Arab Jews "is not well known in the rest of the world," concedes Jacob Efrati, a Jew who was born in Libya. "The reason is that Israel did not want to cause any more misery so it made every effort to absorb them."

The 1948 war, which pitted the new nation of Israel against several Arab countries, resulted in a transfer of population the likes of which the world has rarely seen. In just a few months of 1948, at least 600,000 Palestinian Arabs left or were driven from their homes on Israeli soil. Over the next few years, Arab countries saw the departure of most of their Jewish residents, about 600,000 of whom settled in the new Jewish state.

It was not an easy transfer for either side, and its repercussions are still being felt. Palestinians are demanding the "right of return" to their land or at least compensation for property losses. Next to the fate of Jerusalem, the Palestinian refugee question is probably the toughest issue facing negotiators.

But Jewish refugees say they too should be compensated.

If negotiators ever compared figures for property lost by Arabs who fled Israel with those for Jews who fled Arab countries, Efrati insists, the results would be revealing. "I'm sure it would show that we lost more," he says.

In many ways, Efrati's story is that of the Jewish people throughout history. His ancestors moved from place to place -- Germany, England, France, Italy, Spain -- because, as he says, "nobody wanted the Jews." They finally settled in the North African nation of Libya where his grandfather became chief rabbi. But as anti-Semitism rose after the 1948 war, his family was on the move. In 1951, when he was 6, they left all their possessions and took a ship across the Mediterranean to Haifa, Israel. For almost four years, they lived in a tent on an old British military base, hauling water from a quarter-mile away and cooking on a tiny oil burner.

"Jews from all over the world came here," he says. "There were very few buildings at the start of Israel but in two years Israel absorbed almost 2.5-million Jews."

Helped by donations from the Jewish diaspora, the new nation provided shelter, albeit modest, and education for the new arrivals. Efrati became an economist and is city auditor of Maale Adumin, the Jewish settlement in the West Bank near Jerusalem.

Efrati's wife is also a refugee. But she took a very different route to Israel.

Tzvia Efrati was born in Iraq, home of one of the largest Jewish communities in the Arab world. Jews had lived there since 586 B.C. when Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, captured Jerusalem, destroyed the first Jewish temple and drove the exiles hundreds of miles across the desert.

Mrs. Efrati's family owned a small garment factory in Irbil, in northern Iraq. Relations were good between the city's 4,000 Jews and its Arab residents -- most of the factory's customers were Arab, and Mrs. Efrati's mother frequented the same Turkish bath as Muslim women.

"The first problem was the start of World War II and the Holocaust, when Arabs decided they would do the same to Jewish people," Mrs. Efrati says. In 1942, some Jewish residents in Irbil were attacked and stoned, frightening her family and other Jews into temporarily closing their businesses and hiding in their homes.

An influential Arab citizen of Irbil ordered an end to the violence "and we had some quiet years," Mrs. Efrati says. "But after that the Jews were afraid -- it was never the same as before."

After Israel declared statehood in 1948, the Iraqi government decided to expel all of Iraq's Jews. Israel, founded as a homeland for the Jewish people, felt it had no choice but to accept any who wanted to come.

The relocation of tens of thousands of men, women and children took more than two years, as Jews from all over Iraq were rounded up and transported to Baghdad. There they had to wait to board planes furnished by the Israeli government.

Mrs. Efrati was too young to remember, but her parents told her what happened.

"There was a cop standing in front of the door. He made sure my mother left everything except her wedding ring and watch, which had to have a leather band. They couldn't take any gold -- she was wearing a gold headpiece and gold (jewelry) on her feet, and she had to take them off. Then the cops sealed the door with wax so nobody could open it."

In moving to Israel in 1951, Mrs. Efrati's parents went from prosperity to penury. First they lived in a tent, then a prefab house with a mud floor. The only work her father could find was as a street cleaner. Her mother, who once had her own household staff, became janitor of a high school.

But the educational opportunities were there, and Mrs. Efrati took them. Today she heads a department in the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing. The Efratis' own home is a spacious terrace apartment with a sweeping view of Jerusalem.

Despite the hardships of their early years in Israel, the Efratis see a key difference between how Israel and the Arab world handled the vast floods of refugees in the years after the 1948 war.

They fault rich Arab countries for not accepting more Palestinians, or at least giving them greater help. As a result, the Efratis say, thousands of Palestinians still live in squalid refugee camps.

"The point is, we (in Israel) feel responsible for our brothers," says Jacob Efrati.

"It's been about 50 years," his wife adds. "Look at how we live 50 years later and look at how Palestinians live."

-- Susan Taylor Martin can be contacted at susan@sptimes.com

Source: http://www.sptimes.com/News/080300/Worldandnation/Arab_Jews_lost_in_the.shtml

40 posted on 04/08/2002 2:27:26 PM PDT by Ditto
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