Posted on 04/07/2002 11:04:58 PM PDT by Jean S
But the bible is pretty clear that buildings are brick and mortar, while the true church is the body of believers. This building wasn't there when Jesus was born, nor when he died. Rather some time much, much later it was built where some people THOUGHT it might have been, without certainty. A nice tribute, but other than perhaps some artistic significance, its only real worthiness is symbolic. The true 'church' has survived far worse than the destruction of a building. Not that I would advocate any act that might be symbolized as an offense to God or blasphemy, but collateral damage to end a horrid wrong is far from such. Did Jesus desecrate the Temple when he reacted against the moneychangers?
I don't know if Larry-Lied? Maybe you are highly uninformed.
In WW2 the Church on the parish level were activists to help the Jews survive while the Vatican was circled by Nazi Germany.
What you are throwing out there is very insulting and needs to be kindly toned down several notches.
No way the Vatican will go against the Jews as another enemy. Catholics are made up of the Jewish people who decided to follow Christ in the beginning. We love and respect the Jewish people as you would your own grandparents. They are the grandparents of the Christian faith.
But not today. The Times and the liberal established have been pumping out articles and books ad naseum claiming Pope Pius XII and the Church aided and abetted the Holocaust. The Catholic League has pages of refutations of the garbage liberals spew against the church on their web site. But the slanders never go away. Every month or two there is a new flurry of charges.
I think if the Catholic Church wanted to do right by Judaism, they might stop kissing the quran, a book that commands the murder of Christians AND espeically jews. They might stage demonstrations against burning synagogues in Europe, where they are fast joining the ranks of "minority faiths" amongst the swelling hordes of Islam... before Christians are simply bred into extinction.
I HAVE heard Dr. Keyes, REALLY stand up for Israel... And Bill Bennett. They however are AMERICAN Catholics, not European ones. I heard a Islamic Cleric on the Savage Nation show, tear radical Islam a new one back a few weeks ago... but that is VERY rare. He will probably get a FATONE... or FATWAH... whatever the hell they call it.
I think we have a mixture in all Christian faiths as to how, what and why; we can, should or will do anything for Israel's security, growth and prosperity...
I don't think its all based on religion. Some of it is based on the concept of republic versus empire and our worldwide responsibilities. We have to face the responsibilities thrust upon us and our allies... we ARE an empire. And our allies are also part of our protectorate. Israel is part of that. They ARE our allies.
Pronouncements condemning Israel's self-defensive actions by religious leaders at this time... "are not helpful." Radical Islam has got to go bye bye.
There SHOULD be, I can tell you why there isn't (hint: "double-standards").
Sending HRT or Delta Force might not be a good idea, we wouldn't want to actually kill the Palestinians ourselves, that would only screw up the peace talks.
Maybe some Latin American Catholics could send their team to storm the Church. Those countries are all very, very religious, so the squad would be made up almost entirely of Christians. And Israel would work with their government to train them in counter-terrorism. Maybe the Columbians could send a crew...
Would you prefer that the Catholic Church blow with the proverbial wind, changing with the times to be Politically Correct, as have many of the Protestant denominations?
It is clear to anyone who wants to actually research the facts that the Catholic Church, and the Pope during WWII, helped the Jews to the extent possible.
Use your noodle please. Think!
Bullshit!
The Church is no such thing and -- ignoring for a minute the fact that at least as many as many Catholics and other Christians were put to death by the pagan Hitler and his death-and-destruction-worshipping mass-murderers as were Jews -- it should be noted that Pope Pius is credited with having saved the lives of more than 800,000 Jews.
The courage and charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944, as the measure of his gratitude, he converted to the Catholic faith and took Pius's baptismal name, Eugenio, as his own.
Eugenio Israel Zolli later wrote a book about his conversion -- and in it described Pope Pius's efforts.
Well, he probably could have done more to save Jews and others, almost everyone could have, but he did do a lot.
Exactly correct. You want a load of what Mr. Lied is really about, look in this thread:
French Jews warn of new Kristallnacht
This post, part of his take on almost a thousand Jews turned away at US shores to sail back to Germany and face the ovens, seems to indicate that Christianity may be one of Mr. Lieds favourite tools for whipping up the ol' Jew-hate. Just think, there might be socialists...
To: Cachelot
The father had fled Estonia and made it to one of the last ships out of France. Oddly enough, his Argentine partner had been in the Kreigsmarine, a sailor interned in Uruguay who sneaked over to BA after the Graf Spee was scuttled in Montevideo harbor. Those two sure put politics behind when they saw how much money there was to be made selling stuff to the allies.
No, I don't know what ship it was, I don't know the date, the serial number, the passanger list, how many horsepwer it was nor what color the ship was painted. Not the types of things which comes up when a person relates WWII experiences.
Aside from all that, if you didn't jump all around smearing America for not doing enough for Jews, for sending them back to Hitler, I would not bother pointing this all out. But you do so the other side should be told.
Ever consider the possibility the reason Americans were not too thrilled with the idea of the St. Louis off loading passengers here was what had occurred in the Soviet Union? Who was to know there wasn't another Trotsky on board? America was over 90% Christian at that time. Christians knew of the slaughter of Christians in the Ukraine, they knew who the executioners were. Can you blame them for wondering if that might happen here?
60 posted on 4/1/02 7:54 AM Pacific by LarryLied
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As such, it presents the perverse views of those who do not have even the slightest understanding of Christian morals, manners, and mores. I was reading Paul's first letter to the Corinthians this morning. This insulting appraisal by reuters' pagans fits right in with Paul's first chapter admonitions about the utter foolishness of non-believers (especially when they try to discuss matters of the soul).
Sure, 30-40 probably elderly priests should easily be able to take 200 armed Palestinians.
And Palestinian news releases are always 100% accurate.
My own feeling is that in a situation like this, there's enough shooting and grenades and general confusion so that it would be very difficult to get an accurate account even if those giving any account had the best of intentions.
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