Posted on 04/06/2002 10:29:59 PM PST by paul544
Would you mind telling me how this response supports the argument you presented for this topic or addresses my responses in #440 and #505 ?
It's obvious from the tone of your responses (to me and others) and the use of profanity you can provide no supporting data for your argument. You are using debate methods of liberals by attacking the person rather than the argument and using emotion rather than fact. Neither of these methods will win an argument on FR.
I believe I called you a "total buffoon". You're a buffoon (1 : a ludicrous figure : CLOWN) because you contradict yourself and provide non supported arguments.
When you post to an open forum such as this you are addressing everyone, you have to expect responses from everyone.
take care,
Jim
The final tally is as follows:
Posts by paul544: 0
Posts by all other posters on this thread: 217
The final tally is as follows:
Posts by judgeandjury: 0
Posts by all other posters on this thread: 217
First..,
"You make some kind of suggestion that because you served, which I very much respect, that somehow I owe you something even though you never asked for anything. The tone of your reply was that somehow you did something for me and was therefore entitled to call me a whiner. Perhaps my reply was on the low end, but that is how I took your post.
I'm sorry you took my comment about my military service that way, for it wasn't intended to come across like that. It's been one of those 75 hour, 7 day, work weeks, and I'm not the best composer of words or sentences.
I served during peacetime, and expect recognition nor think that you, or anybody else owe me anything for that.One reason I joined is because my Grandad, and namesake, was killed in Northern Germany, Feb.27,1945, just months before Germany surrendered.
His family immigrated to America around 1935, escaping the madman hitler's rise to power. In 1941, he joined the Army to go fight against the man destroying Europe, and killing his ex-country men in the process
My Father never got the chance to meet him.
He didn't fight because he had to, he knew firsthand what was happening in Germany, and wanted to rid his homeland of his evil.
However, millions have paid the ultimate price for their nation. Unselfishly. Their blood, from 1776, Civil War, ww1 and ww2, into the Korean, Vietnam, and now, to the present, has provided ALL of us with a life of security, prosperity, and the continued existance of the United States of America.
Many people have done things in our history, non-military, which have improved our way of life, through science, communications, health care advances, on down to the teachers, fireman, policemen, Doctors, etc...
But to me, our young men who have given their blood, have given to their nation the most precious thing they have in this world. For all the Medal of Honor's awarded, many more acts of courage are never witnessed.
But, I don't expect you, or anybody else, specifically, owe me or any other vet, anything. Just realize the fact, most families who have been here, have sacrificed a son or daughter for this Nation, and have earned their right to the fruits of America.
And not to cheapen ANYONE who dies in combat, but the WW2 generation fought for the VERY survival of this Nation, and to liberate Europe. Most people today don't realize, if the Japanese hadn't stopped at Pearl, thinking the damage wasn't as bad as anticipated. If Yamamoto had continued his attack towards the West Coast, most strategist concur we couldn't have slowed them untill the Mississippi.
"For example. All you people on FR do is bitch and moan about how terrible America is becoming. Yet that is all you do. Why don't you do something about this country? Right. Beacause it is easier to make excuses and demand others do it for you.
That is what I infered by my military service remark, in reply to above post. You said "ALL" of us FREEPERS,only bitching and moaning, and not taking any action, then the making excuses and demand others do for me.
So my military remark was making the point that some us had given for our country, didn't make excuses or demand any do anything for me. And my reward for my Grandads,Mine, and everyother vet , is a pride that comes from inside.
Sorry for the bad inference..
And thank's for the respect...
Secondly.... Please do not assume I'm some anti-immigrant or racist bigot, I can assure you and prove to you, I am not.
I feel, like you, a diverse population has been one of the factors in our Nation's success. Many people from all parts of the world have made major contributions to our Nation.
And spending my career in construction, I have worked with many hard working talented people from countries such as; Nicaruaga, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Lithuania, Poland, Mexico, Vietnam, just to name a few.
These have all came here to improve their way of life, and have taken the legal means neccessary to come here. And once here, respect our laws , pay taxes, just like us citizens have to do. Once here, they add to society.
And I believe Mexicans are a hard working people, who, like others, only want a chance at a good living. Many contractors rave of the punctuality and work ethic of Mexicans. And their strong family ties, are a quality.
In our Nations infancy, mass immigration was needed to fill the vast wilderness, and build Young America.
Now, times are different. Our nations cities, infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and resources are being drained by the sheer number of illegals brought in over the last 10 years, and by some unproductive citizens.
Which causes us people who pay for these to get less and less, for more and more of my hard earned tax dollar.
Here in Atlanta, there are several hospitals about to be bailed out at taxpayer expense, because of the sheer number of unisured, illegal, immigrants.
Another trend I have noticed, my friends of other nationalities have all done things legally, and then lived by the rules, as everybody else.
And while I have said Mexicans are very hard workers, a large majority here in Georgia work cash labor, construction, and other jobs where there are no taxes paid.
There have been several accidents in Ga. where an illegal, driving a nice, Full Size Truck, with no insurance, has been involved.
On Easter Sunday, 1995, I had to take my boss to identify his wife, who was broadsided by a Mexican Illegal, drunk, no insurance.
On of the arguments Gov. Barnes was pushing for driving license for illegals, was since they couldn't get a license, they couldn't get insurance, and that was keeping them down. It was openly presented as Pro- Mexican.
In Georgia, you can insure a car without a license, I know because I had to do it.
And the whole motive behind all this, is the Gov. buddies make big money hiring, underpaid, illegals.
Lastly, please understand I don't include all Mexicans in the above statements, or think Mexicans are the only ones, just in general. I know plenty of WHITE trash that do the same.
"The tone of your reply was that somehow you did something for me and was therefore entitled to call me a whiner. Perhaps my reply was on the low end, but that is how I took your post.
That is soooo easy to say living here. Could you change this country? No. Easier said than done. It is so easy to have others do what you yourself are not able or willing to do. For example. All you people on FR do is bitch and moan about how terrible America is becoming. Yet that is all you do. Why don't you do something about this country? Right. Beacause it is easier to make excuses and demand others do it for you."
Well, I made the pantywaist whiny comment in response to the bitch and moan comment from above. And, in restrospect, since you have hung around 500+ posts, I regret making that statement.
For when I made my original post, I deducted from the composistion, and from some of your first responses, that intelligent debate was not your motive. Plus, my tone was in response to the tone of some of your statements.
However, you have proven me wrong on that part, and I have apologized for that comment. And my tone.
Other than the whiny comment, the main body was directed, not at you personally, but to the issues you brought up.
And that was why I pasted your comments above my specific replies.
I have debated several heated issues here, but have never had anyone just blatantly cuss me, as you did, in your original reply.
And, many people would have rightly report abuse, as that was clearly an obscene remark, and I have seen people suspended for a lot less...
But, I'm not the type to run tattlin'. Never have been.
Now that I have apologized and admitted my mistake, you think you could shoot me one for the cussin?:')
Kermit
Again, let me say, I totally respect your service. I am a bit of a hypocrite for chiding others because they won't act and just B & M. But in reality, serving in the military is something I know I could never do unless some sorry SOB was knocking at our border wanting to make a mistake.
I also understand the points you make about the illegals in GA and the issues that arise from having an unchecked, unaccountable population living amongst us. What I am trying to say is that Mexicans seem to get a bum rap for being "illegals", when that group is composed of many different nationalities. You know as well as I do that America could, if it wanted to, close its borders pretty darn tight. But it doesn't. For a reason. Can you imagine how much it would cost for a head of lettuce if some high school kid was doing it instead of a "wetback"? America is now in a postion where we are willing to farm out our low end jobs to illegals, because we have become so rich, that we can afford these jobs go to people who don't even register on the radar screen as "Americans".
America is an ever evolving work in progress. I get tired of the people who say that there is a moment in time, either now or some time in the past, when America should just freeze. Like trying to get America back to some kind of Rockwell painting. If so many Americans complain about Mexicans, all it does is make us look weak and scared. I have more faith in America. I do not fear a future when someone of Mexican decendant is running for office as a true blooded conservative and who was made that way because his parents taught him about hard work and respecting the free will and enterprise that allowed them to come to America in the first place.
What I do fear is dead conservatism that died because it was too afraid to move beyond itself and embrace something that is a little too different. I listen to our "leaders" like Rush and hear such a closed mind. There is absolutely no bending. I don't get it. What may be unsaid is that, quite frankly, we are running out of white guys to win with. We have completely lost any chance of winning the black vote, and Latinos are not far behind. I am not suggesting we give up our ideals, but we need to understand the plight of others. Sounds liberal don't it? Well it is not. It is reality quickly catching up to a party that is losing ground for all the wrong reasons. And when I see Bush making the right moves towards this effort and hear him castrated here on FR as "Jorge Bush" or "Viva Bush", it just gets me pissed.
Perhaps this thread was just my opus and I didn't even realize it. I see politically reality where others can only see philosophical rigidity. Perhaps that is why there are so few minorities here on FR. Is that because minorities don't understand conservatism? Possibly. Is it because conservatism doesn't understand minorities? Probablly.
I think this will be my last post to this thread. Thanks Kermit, I think I do owe you something.
Can you imagine how much it would cost for a head of lettuce if some high school kid was doing it instead of a "wetback"?
Yes, it might cost another 5 or 10 cents a head if a high school kid was picking that head of lettuce instead of a "wetback". People shouldn't try to tackle a complex subject like economics unless they know what they are talking about. There is no direct correlation between the cost of labor used to pick produce and the final retail cost of produce at the supermarket. Most of the markup that results in the final retail price of produce is added on after the grower sells his crop to the produce wholesaler.
bttt
NOT !!
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