Posted on 04/04/2002 10:13:48 AM PST by B. A. Conservative
There have been 26 people who responded to the initial post in this series entitled, "Not Goint to Take It Anymore". I have tried to infer their thinking regarding the underlying premise of the series: the United States as defined under our Constitution has ceased to exist. There are at least two separate population groups living within the geographical confines of the United States. The two groups have diametrically opposing views of government. There is some over-lapping of the geographic areas occupied by the two groups, but surprisingly the over-lap is less than most imagine. This makes a geo-political division between the groups feasible and perhaps desireable.
Of the 26 replies, there was only one who felt that the idea that the United States is broken was treachery or treasonous. There were four who plan to monitor these threads and who seemed undecided. Most respondents agree that the United States is in fact broken.
I am posting the first question now as its own thread to provide additional opportunities to recruit additional Freepers to participate in the discussion and for each participant to have a venue to clearly state their own opinions.
Is the United States broken?
Therein seems to lie the the difference of opinion. Calling it "broken" is something of an analogy to a mechanical system. You perceive the "tools" as an integral part of the system, and therefore do not see it as "broken", because the tools are still there to fix it.
It's like saying a car with a seized water pump is "not broken" as long as you have tools and and spare water pump in the trunk.
So would secession and attempts at nullification.
There are a couple of other approaches we might try.
One is, I beleive, beyond the pale. That is to get enough states together to call for a constitutional convention. The problem with that approach is that we have no idea what type of Constitution we'd come up with. But with the caliber of today's education and with today's press --in fact, with today's citizenry -- we'd probably end up with something that looked like the Soviet Constitution.
The other is to put together a militia movement. Not a bunch of nut cases (though that is how they would be characterized in the press), but ordinary citizens. Get them drilling in public. In front of courthouses and statehouses and particularly on the Mall in Washington. You could bet we'd get martyrs then. But we might remind the government that we're still here and that they've gone too far.
Of course, I'm getting a bit ahead of the roadmap with this, but it's unavoidable.
Who was it that said by design governments consume power infinitely?
Sounds like cheap ribs and free NASCAR for everyone! Count me in! < /kidding>
I like voting myself, but restricting the franchise would probably be a good thing.
A proposal I like: Reward each registered voter who does not vote with the maximum of either $1000 cash tax-free or a 100% income tax refund. (The latter is really just the same deal that Puerto Ricans have. I bet huge numbers of Americans would take it if they could.)
Absolutely it is. I think that the Bill of Rights was meant to be an absolute. Our rights are being trampled on, and too many people don't care. Our federal government is growing larger and larger. Our tax system is incomprehensible, and the group that imposes it is more feared than any mafia. Our government rewards no-production, and punishes those who truely deserve those rewards. Our nation is on it's way to bankruptcy. The list goes on and on. Yes. Our country is broken.
We may still disagree on the scope and course of action, but we had best settle on both of these issues quickly. The time is wasting. Even if we manage to merely keep the Klintoons and the D'asshles on the cusp of power while RINOs and pseudo-conservatives too afraid to give the reins of power a hard yank or two are at said reins, we have, at best, 12 years before what their predecessors unleashed overtakes us. If nothing substanitive is done in the intervening years, there will be a Second Civil War, one where we would be the incredible underdog as all we would have is experience in bodies too old to take advantage of it.
I certainly hope you're right and I will continue to fight the good political fight, but, as you have inferred, I no longer count myself in the ranks of the optimists...I hope that some day you can say "I told you so!"
'Til then, anyone know the way to "Galts Gulch"?
Madison is referring though (in Federalist Paper #41) to the General Welfare clause in Section 8 and those delegated powers following it as being necessary. To make the laws "which shall be necessary and proper" as mentioned in clause 17 is modified by the phrase "the foregoing powers", which immediatly follows, referring to the previous 16 clauses. I find no mention of "implied powers". Are those some of the Penumbras that the Warren court was always finding.
Thank you for the links. I will peruse them more in the near future.
The United States IS broken.
In fact, the only amendment in the Bill of Rights that has not been subverted or completely nullified by this or previous Presidents and Congresses, is the Third Amendment.
For more on this see The Bill of Rights - Under Attack.
That is to leave
No realistic choices of which I am aware.
Actually, there are quite a number of, not only realistic choices, but very attractive choices. In fact, as pointed out in the article "Tick-Tick-Tick - The Economy Bomb", many wealthy families have already taken advantage of this option and many more are in the process of making plans to follow them. Here are two very good sites to help you learn more about where these expats are going and where you might want to go, as well.
Regardless of whether you plan to leave or not, it is a good idea to have an exit strategy in place, just in case things should become bad enough that you should suddenly feel that you have to leave. If you don't have an exit strategy and it should get that bad, it will be too late to learn all that you need to know to move offshore without risk. Escape Artist has country profiles on many different countries favored by expats. Sovereign Society has lots of good info and a great free newsletter. But, the main thing that they have is an excellent list of links to other offshore related sites - just click on "Offshore Resources" on their home page.
In many ways, I think that's true.
Yes the Government is badly broken. Common sense is non-existent in the top ranks. From the E-Ring at the Pentagon to the FBI, CIA, and even the newly formed TSA. Even the White House is broken. I am disappointed that President Bush who I voted for has not cleaned house. The dead wood is still operating the beauracy. Yes we are our own worse enemy.
If we have a war on terrorism then Chicken Little is the CINC.
I think the big problem with term limits is that they are not consistant. If term limits are good enough for the President, then they ought to be good enough for Congress, AND even the Supreme Court. Assuming we stick with the 2 term limit, that means the Pres still serves 8 years, House members 4, Senators 12, but what about the Supreme Court? I guess it would make sense to define their term as eight years, so they would serve 16 maximum to keep things consistant. This wouldn't have much effect though since I think the average time served by a justice is less than that.The problem with term limits is that it assumes there is a large supply of qualified people. Personally, I think the supply is limited, and if the people want the same guy to keep serving, then fine. The only plus to term limits would be the regulated dynamism, that is new blood and ideas coming in at a steady pace. Actually, that seems to assume that all generations are equal, so maybe that wouldn't be so good after all or the effect might be made irrelvant by some other factor. My main concern is that things are consistant. I think that outweighs the argument of whether term limits will solve anything or not.
As far as moving goes, I think there are some good possibilties for Greenland. We wouldn't have to worry about anyone following us up there, and I am sure we could find ways to exploit her resources. Another possibility is Canada. With only 1/10 our population, a decent sized migration could really tip the balance. Seccession is probably a good idea to, if preceeded by some sort of concentrated migration. In this day and age of TV, internet, radio and instant information along with soft-hearted liberalism, I think a Yeltsin style stand would have a better than 50% chance of succeeding, assuming it was a state the US could afford to lose, like North Dakota.
From my perspective, the US is very broken relative to the social and economic powerhouse it was in decades past. Compared to the rest of the world we're still way ahead, but that's not the point.
This country needs spiritual revival and a return to virtue. There's no hope, in my opinion, without that. In addition, the wrong people/institutions run this country. Seems to me the main reason the 'right' people/institutions do not dominate in today's culture is because of a lack of money. In order to gain power, influence, and fend off the enemy, we must personally have and also control lots and lots of money.
The good news is that this is still America, and plenty of money can be had with the right strategy and leadership. Therefore, all we need is the will and the coordination. Having the will is the most important.
One discouraging sign that I myself have experienced is trying to deal with other conservatives (or those that call themselves conservative or libertarian). Conservatives continually shoot themselves in the foot. It seems to be more important to 'win' an argument, or show that one is 'more conservative' or a 'lover of freedom' than the other. As a result, all our energy is spent on fighting one another rather than directing our time and energies to make progress toward the most worthy of goals - to rescue America.
Then the first order of business should be to reduce the power and authority of the federal government, for it is the mechanism that these people use to fund their efforts out of our pockets. Without the vast federal bureaucracy to prop up and support them in the background they will have to compete in the free market of ideas, and will soon be bankrupt.
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