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To: Clemenza
Be careful with Snopes. They "debunked" the Hillary Clinton/Black Panther story and they got it wrong. On purpose I suspect.
20 posted on 04/03/2002 1:05:19 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Sorry, but anybody who believes such urban legends as "my friend saw them cheering" or "Tommy Hilfiger stated that blacks shouldn't wear his clothes, a FRIEND told me so" is a deluded FOOL who should go back to watching Jerry Springer.

Hey, don't you know that the owner of Proctor & Gamble is a Satan worshipper? He admitted it on Oprah! ;-)

28 posted on 04/03/2002 1:14:11 PM PST by Clemenza
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To: Phil V.;RCW2001;Justin Raimondo;massadvj;LarryLied;WindRiverShoshoni;The Documentary Lady
Ha'aretz - Article
Saturday, September 29, 2001
Odigo says workers were warned of attack

By Yuval Dror

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.
34 posted on 04/03/2002 1:25:11 PM PST by luvzhottea
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To: LarryLied
Be careful with Snopes. They "debunked" the Hillary Clinton/Black Panther story and they got it wrong.

How did they get it wrong? (I don't mean that as a challenge, I am genuinely curious.)

42 posted on 04/03/2002 1:39:02 PM PST by murdoog
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To: LarryLied, Clemenza
Be careful with Snopes.

I agree. Their treatment of the Ron Brown death is nothing short of Clintonesque. There is a mountain of evidence suggesting that someone(s) associated with the Clinton administration MURDERED a Secretary of Commerce (along with at least 34 others on the plane) and that certain people(s) in the Clinton administration and Military helped cover it up. Here is what this so-called "debunking" site says about the Brown crash.

*** "There were no survivors." ***

That is UNTRUE. One of the flight attendants did in fact survive the crash. TEN HOURS later when rescuers arrived she was STILL alive. She then died on the way to the hospital under the care of a doctor. This is PUBLIC RECORD so why does this site suggest there were no survivors?

Furthermore, a confidential timeline, uncovered by Judicial Watch via a FOIA suit, contains a message that was sent to the Secretary of State Warren Christopher from the crash site by Ira Sockowitz (an associate of John Huang, the Chinese SPY). It notified Christopher that there were TWO survivors. The government NEVER mentioned this, not even in that "official" SHAM report the Air Force put out. Immediatedly after receiving this message, Christopher ordered that access to the site by journalists be curtailed. To this day, the government has refused to comment on WHO Sockowitz considered the 2nd "survivor".

Finally, Cyril Wecht, one of the foremost forensic pathologists in the entire country, after looking at the Brown photos, x-rays and examination report stated that EXCEPT for the hole in Brown's brain, his injuries were NOT life threatening. He said Brown could have survived the impact.

The Snopes site goes on to say:

*** "A lot has been made of an x-ray of Brown's skull in which what looks like a round entry wound appears. Closer examination of Brown's skull by military officials revealed no bullet, no bone fragments, no metal fragments and, even more telling, no exit wound." ***

This is UNTRUE in EVERY detail. EVERY single pathologist involved in the case who has made public statements, INCLUDING Colonel Gormley who was in charge of examining the body, has now stated that it had the appearance of a bullet wound and there should have been an autopsy. Contrary to what is on the Snopes site (and in the official Air Force coverup report), there WAS brain matter visible in the entrance wound so there had to have been bone fragments. Gormley himself admitted this after being caught LYING on BET TV as to the reasons he declared the wound a blunt force trauma. And, according to the pathologists, there ARE bone fragments visible in the x-ray inside the skull, displaced away from the entrance hole. Several of the pathologists also say they see what could be metal fragments in the x-rays ... a lead snowstorm which is characteristic of bullet wounds. Captain Janowski has stated, UNDER OATH, that she was told by Major Sentelle that Gormley tampered with the x-ray machine to try and hide the lead snowstorm in a second set of x-rays (which along with the first set have disappeared from a locked safe at AFIP). Cyril Wecht said the photos show what appear to be metallic fragments around the entrance wound which, he said, is also characteristic of bullet entrance wounds. And as to there being no bullet ... well NO AUTOPSY was done. Do an autopsy and you may find one. As to there being no exit wound ... the most "telling" item ... noone would know because they did even NOT look for one (and that is the testimony of MULTIPLE people at the examination INCLUDING Colonel Gormley). So you see, this paragraph in the Snopes site is FULL OF UNTRUTHS ... DEMONSTRABLE LIES. It should make one VERY suspicious about the rest of the site.

Also from the Snopes site:

*** "Simply imagining a scenario under which Ron Brown could have been shot takes one into the realm of the absurd." ***

Here again the authors of this site are not telling the FACTS ... plus they have the cart before the horse. If there were a bullet wound in Brown's head, AS ALL THE EXPERTS SUGGEST MIGHT BE THE CASE, then no matter how implausible it might sound, someone managed to put one there. THAT is when you figure out how.

But in any case, there is a perfectly plausible scenario, based again ON THE FACTS which this site seems to want to avoid. First, we KNOW that a backup beacon was stolen from the airport to which the plane was headed several days before the crash. COINCIDENTALLY, the man in charge of that beacon at the airport committed "suicide" a few days after the crash ... before he could be interviewed. How "strange" that he kills himself using a shotgun to the CHEST. How "strange" that the NY Times IMMEDIATELY reported the cause was a failed romance ... one would think the man would have other things on his mind than a "romance" given he was a central figure in a SERIOUS crash that had just occurred.

Second, the published flight path of the plane clearly shows a sudden 90 degree maneuver just before its attempted landing ... one which the report and the officer in charge of the crash investigation do not explain. It is entirely plausible that the plane was spoofed into crashing into the mountain using the portable backup beacon. All that would have been needed is for the normal beacon, which was working BEFORE and AFTER the crash, to have been momentarily turned off. And what a coincidence ... the man who would have been able to do that ... the maintenance chief in charge of the beacons ... committed suicide right after the crash.

But there is more. We KNOW that something happened on board that plane when it was still 8 MILES from the crash site. That is when BOTH transponder and voice contact were lost. Two SEPARATE systems on board that plane failed at the same time, well before the crash occurred. We also know that the crashed plane was found with the rear door open. If you were going to spoof the plane into flying into a mountain, it might be a good idea to cut communications with the plane so that the pilots could get no help from the ground ... so they would have to depend on the beacon even if it did something odd (like show up 10 degrees off from where they were expecting it) right before landing.

And there is still more facts to support this plausible scenario! If you were going to deliberately crash a plane, wouldn't you want to make sure that the person you were trying to kill was indeed dead? You KNOW where the plane is coming down (because you are doing the spoofing) so it would make sense to place some people you could trust on the ground nearby to move in and "make sure". Don't you think? So you need to make sure that recovery efforts look elsewhere at first. Well, initially the military reported finding wreckage at sea ... miles from the crash site ... so all initial recovery efforts were focused on an area far removed from the actual crash site. Furthermore, Associate Press reported that the first rescuers to arrive at the crash site many hours later were met by 3 Americans who were already on the ground. Funny ... the OFFICIAL report doesn't mention these men. Funny, noone in the US government has ever admitted to our people arriving at the crash site first. Can you spell CLEAN UP CREW?

So much for Snope's accuracy and nonbias ... both are URBAN LEGENDS.

45 posted on 04/03/2002 1:53:38 PM PST by BeAChooser
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