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Effects of Climate Warming Already in Evidence
Lycos Environmental News Service ^ | 03/29/2002

Posted on 04/03/2002 9:57:45 AM PST by cogitator

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To: Phantom Lord
Ah, James Hansen. The man whose models on global warming didnt include the oceans. And since you support the use of models, why are you citing a man who now says they are useless in predicting future climate change?

Will you please read the links I am so politely offering to you? Your criticism is outdated. Furthermore, Hansen is doing a fine job of truly examining both climate and emissions trends and coming up with answers that aren't nearly as frightening as those being touted by global warming scaremongers. Which doesn't make him a friend to such extremists. And for that reason, and a record of honesty in the face of pressure from three successive presidential administrations (during which each time he presented results contrary to their policy positions; the previous Bush Administration even altered his testimony to Congress), I think he's an excellent source. So does Patrick Michaels.

61 posted on 04/03/2002 12:04:09 PM PST by cogitator
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To: max61
Why are you double posting??
62 posted on 04/03/2002 12:14:30 PM PST by timestax
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To: cogitator
The maximum effect and least economically disadvantageous program to address global warming would improve the efficiency of fossil fuel use and also seek to control methane, remaining CFC sources, and black soot aerosols

I'm interested in your comments on the proposed use of jet fuel additives to introduce particulates into the upper atmosphere to partially block solar radiation as a mean of controlling warming. At an estimated cost of $100 million per year, it is by far the cheapest method.

63 posted on 04/03/2002 12:20:33 PM PST by kidd
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To: cogitator
The maximum effect and least economically disadvantageous program to address global warming would improve the efficiency of fossil fuel use and also seek to control methane, remaining CFC sources, and black soot aerosols. The latter of these three should be sold to Third World nations such as India and China on the basis of the improved pulmonary health benefits.

Your solution isn't politically correct -- it doesn't attack the United States or capitalism, and it actually places partial blame on a communist country. The Left, the UN, and the press will never go for it.

64 posted on 04/03/2002 12:22:18 PM PST by Moonman62
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To: cogitator
The report seems to assume that this is the very first ocurrance of climate change in the history of the world.
This report is written by Idiots.
This report was financed by Idiots.
Anyone that lends credence to this report is an Idiot.

Climate change is a natural ocurrance, and has happened millions of times in the course of this planets' geological history.
Innumerable species have survived such climate changes, as evidenced by their existance today.
Change is inevitable, and those species that adapt to change survive.

65 posted on 04/03/2002 12:23:49 PM PST by Drammach
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To: hsmomx3
I heard the weather guy say last night that we will be near 100 degrees next week!!

That does seem a bit early. I vacationed in Phoenix in spring of 1995 just before Memorial Day, and that year they were remarking on how temperatures hadn't broken 100 yet. It was pretty reasonable then.

66 posted on 04/03/2002 12:25:32 PM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator
So you think human beings and civilization is responsible, instead of natural cycles. Do you have hard evidence that that is so, that would refute evidence found in tree rings and rock strata, and evidence of warming trends in relatively recent history when there was no technology to spew various gasses?

I don't know that I buy global warming. The same people forty years ago were predicting global freezing. And if there is, I don't know that I buy that it's caused by human beings. And even if it is, I can't say that it would be a bad thing. So, it is quite probable the correct remedy is to do nothing.

67 posted on 04/03/2002 12:27:23 PM PST by William Terrell
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To: kidd
I'm interested in your comments on the proposed use of jet fuel additives to introduce particulates into the upper atmosphere to partially block solar radiation as a mean of controlling warming. At an estimated cost of $100 million per year, it is by far the cheapest method.

I'm generally opposed to technological fixes that are implemented while underlying problems aren't fixed. That's why I favor controls on black soot emissions: a likely measurable effect on warming and a simultaneous health benefit.

Plus, there would have to be some good pilot-project (no pun intended) research on this idea to prove that it works and doesn't cause unintended bad environmental consequences. But I don't think the idea should be dismissed out of hand. I also don't think we're at a stage where it's necessary. I may think differently in 20 years.

68 posted on 04/03/2002 12:30:31 PM PST by cogitator
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To: cogitator
Its snowing in Chicago again today. We could use some global warming here. Everybody west of us leave your cars running.
69 posted on 04/03/2002 12:36:18 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: William Terrell
So you think human beings and civilization is responsible, instead of natural cycles. Do you have hard evidence that that is so, that would refute evidence found in tree rings and rock strata, and evidence of warming trends in relatively recent history when there was no technology to spew various gasses?

Solar variability is a natural cycle. As for evidence, I only assess what scientists are analyzing. There is a general concurrence that some of the observed warming is human-caused. That conclusion is based on models of what would happen if we weren't burning fossil fuels for energy compared to what we are doing. It's called "attribution".

There is no doubt that there are natural cycles that cause warming and cooling. That's what makes attribution difficult, separating the natural from the man-made. The current conclusion is that some of the observed warming is attributable to human activities.

By the way, there's also no doubt that increased atmospheric CO2 maintains higher global temperatures. The initial increase in global temperature may have a different cause, and the increase has climate effects that lead to higher atmospheric CO2 concentrations. Once in the atmosphere, the CO2 acts to maintain those higher temperatures, like a thermostat, until another climate effect causes temperatures to come back down. This is a basic statement of what paleoclimatological studies have determined. If you want more detail, ask and I'll try to help.

70 posted on 04/03/2002 12:38:24 PM PST by cogitator
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To: WhiteGuy
"Whatever we're doing let's do more"---I SUPPORT GLOBAL WARMING,would make a great bumper sticker.
71 posted on 04/03/2002 1:23:05 PM PST by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: cogitator
Q: How do you know when an environmentalist is lying?

A: His lips are moving.

72 posted on 04/03/2002 1:28:06 PM PST by moyden
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To: discostu
The Southwest, southern Arizona in particular has had a definite climatic change over the last 50 years or so, when I was growing up in Phoenix. It's wetter and cooler, but not less comfortable, as it comes with more humidity.
Temperatures approaching 120oF were not uncommon in late June, and rain? Forget about it. The monsoons in August were dust storms with occasionally enough rain to make a mess. The Salt River never saw water, and was safe make-out area for ASU students.
When was the last time that you saw the relative humidity in the sinlge digits?
73 posted on 04/03/2002 1:38:02 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: derlauerer
Global Warming is just history repeating itself. 1000 years ago, It was warm enough in England for vinyards and Greenland had farms.
This was followed by the "little ice age" 5-600 years ago when fairs were held on the frozen Thames in winter.
74 posted on 04/03/2002 1:42:38 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: cogitator; Free the USA; 1Old Pro; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; a_federalist; abner; aculeus...
When will this stupidity end?

There is overwhelming evidence that this world is rapidly advancing into an ice age, and the pagan fools continue to scream about warming. - I'd do the things that the fools say cause warming, but unfortunately, they are really the cause of some of the cooling.

75 posted on 04/03/2002 2:01:38 PM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: editor-surveyor
Well... what can you say? The global warming group is convinced they're saving us. Frankly it is they who need saving from themselves.
76 posted on 04/03/2002 2:07:15 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: editor-surveyor
bump
77 posted on 04/03/2002 2:12:04 PM PST by mafree
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To: discostu
"Our hottest day was 117 and it hit in June,"

There must be some frost impeding the operation of your thermometer. - We frequently have such temperatures in the inland bay area, and we're 500 miles north of you and a couple of thousand feet lower in elevation. - Back in the 50's it would hit 120 F. in Walnut Creek at least 4 or 5 times per year; now it never makes it that high.

78 posted on 04/03/2002 2:13:51 PM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: cogitator
This is rather interesting ... (That the "early arrival" of ecological changes in spring comes from "global warming" based on evidence since the sixties ....)

BECAUSE THE GLOBAL TEMPERATURES DECREASED FROM THE LATE 1930's ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE EARLY 1980's ....

More "scientific garbage as lies" from the liberals.

79 posted on 04/03/2002 2:16:43 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE
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To: cogitator
Go global warming!! I love these warm winters. Been able to ride my motorcycle off and on all winter. Not bad for northern Indiana.
80 posted on 04/03/2002 2:16:55 PM PST by turk99
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