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The United States as a nation-state following a mission statement written 200 plus years ago, is finished. It has simply out lived its purpose.

The Civil War was fought, in the megapolitcal sense, as a cultural clash between the powers of the old economy agrarians and the new economy industrialists. 500,000 plus died.

Freerepublic and its frequenters recognize that the Industrial Age is coming to an end (accept the paleo-cons who think somehow a third party candidacy will save the day)in favor of a borderless Information Society.

Many of us are no longer nationalists, even though we remain patriots in the true sense: we love the land of our fathers. We favor policies and politicians that will make the transition to a new age as violence free as possible, hoping to avoid the cultural divide that caused a war of horrific proportions in the 1860s. We see a land splitting apart, on a way course to a violent clash that we will not be able to control in any sense.

The other piece to the puzzle requires a historical reference. In the 1920s, many a judge in Germany had an opportunity to put Hitler and his Nazi Party in jail for numerous frauds and thefts, let alone political murders that numbered in the hundreds. The names of these judges have been lost to history even though as the interpreters of the law, they were suppose to be the bulwark against the will of the people.

However, in this age, for the sake of history, we work to name the names of the corrupt seawards of power and in a book yet to be written a hundred years from now, let their names be the villains to a peaceful and Judeo-Christian sense of liberty.

IMO

Probably the best indicator of the odds against restoring Constitutional governance is the extraordinary length to which the government will go to keep its citizens disarmed. Waco. Ruby Ridge.

The absurdities of a few deconstructionists notwithstanding, there's nothing at all unclear about the Second Amendment. Yet government's minions turn ghostly pale at the suggestion that a private citizen has a perfect right to obtain and carry any weapon an Army soldier is issued. Inasmuch as the point of the Second Amendment was to guarantee that the citizenry could rise up and depose the State when it deemed that the time had come to do so, there can be only one reason for this.

Secession, the only remedy for usurpation of authority beyond that granted by the Constitution, has been rendered too dangerous to contemplate by the disarming of the citizenry. In all probability, Washington wouldn't order a nuclear bombardment of a seceding state. It wouldn't have to. How many of your neighbors own tanks, rocket launchers, or fully automatic weapons?

"Paper constitutions raise smiles on the faces of those who have observed their results." -- Herbert Spencer.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

I'm still a member here, but I don't frequent it nearly as much as I used to.

To be honest, I was devastated by the sentiments expressed by an overwhelming number of people post-9/11. I couldn't believe these were the same people who earlier were preaching against a coercive State and claimed to be promoters of Liberty.

The word "fascist" kept coming to mind as the cheers for "lock up anyone who disagrees with Bush" got louder.

I've come to believe that the vast majority of people here use FR to let off steam ... and they like to hear themselves sound "patriotic." I've also discovered that many here who call themselves conservative really are nothing of the sort. They are neo-conservatives.

As far as America being too far gone to be salvaged, I believe you are right. Garet Garrett thought it was too far gone over fifty years ago. And things have only gotten worse since then:

There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.

There are those who have never ceased to say very earnestly, "Something is going to happen to the American form of government if we don't watch out." These were the innocent disarmers. Their trust was in words. They had forgotten their Aristotle. More than 2,000 years ago he wrote of what can happen within the form, when "one thing takes the place of another, so that the ancient laws will remain, while the power will be in the hands of those who have brought about revolution in the state."

Worse outwitted were those who kept trying to make sense of the New Deal from the point of view of all that was implicit in the American scheme, charging it therefore with contradiction, fallacy, economic ignorance, and general incompetence to govern.

But it could not be so embarrassed and all that line was wasted, because, in the first place, it never intended to make that kind of sense, and secondly, it took off from nothing that was implicit in the American scheme. It took off from a revolutionary base. The design was European. Regarded from the point of view of revolutionary technic it made perfect sense. Its meaning was revolutionary and it had no other. For what it meant to do it was from the beginning consistent in principle, resourceful, intelligent, masterly in workmanship, and it made not one mistake.

The test came in the first one hundred days...

I would be happy to participate in this discussion thread, it sounds very constrictive. My thoughts are similar to many, the issue we face is fundamentally “what are we”, what is the nature of our culture and our country, what do we stand for and how should we live. The calls for us to destroy the “enemy” are fine, but until we know what we are, this “destruction” of the enemy risks getting profoundly out of control.

That is not to say we should not defend ourselves, nor work to prevent further attacks. But at the same time we need to answer these questions. I have heard it said that you define your self by your enemy, defining yourself by what you are not.

If I might make a few suggestions:

1. Group the questions into logical topics so a discussion of the topic can address all aspects

2. Focus the discussion on the positive, if it just turns about to be a complaining session, then interest will wane.

I think we are to change direction, each individual; needs to make a contribution. Let’s use this forum to determine what those actions might be.

I think we have been beyond the point of "no return" for quite some time. However, the Constitutional Conservative and traditionally valued patriot can not roll over and give up. Our resistance will serve to delay the time when we are totally consumed by liberal socialism. Now the question becomes how is resistance defined?

I don't believe in a violent resistance. This change that has been occurring over the last 40 plus years has come as a result from the "will" of the American people, either through apathy or active participation. And it has happened at the ballot box. Violence will not slow the slide into Godless socialism, but, in my opinion, only serve to hasten it.

Therefore our resistance must be at the ballot box. It is difficult to accept the "will of the people" when it so obviously is swinging to the left, where no one has to be responsible, and Big Brother will take care of us all.

So, I am still left with the question; Given that we can't return to the Republic we once were, what is the conservatives course of action?

I have my "steel pot" on as I can almost feel the tenor of what many of the replies to this thread will take.

I think I realized the United States was "broken" when I realized that the 2nd Amendment should still mean something. Before, in my youthful "liberal" days (hehe) I used to subscribe to the idea that "The concept behind the 2nd Amendment is outdated. We don't need guns in every house anymore, this is the 20th century!" This is, of course, a very popular view today.

As it should not be popular! The whole point of having a "well armed militia" of course was not to simply aid in the common defense, but to protect us from any tyranical government, any tyranical government. That includes our own, if need be!

So when I realized that the second amendment was FAR from "out dated", and realized that most people were thinking the opposite, I realized there is something seriously wrong with this country.

As far as fixing it goes, I'm not sure if we'll ever return to pure "constitutionalism", but I'll be damned before I see the second amendment taken away.

Is the United States broken?
Yes
If it is broken, can it be fixed?
Yes
If it can be fixed, how long will it take?
4 years
Who will fix it?
Those who believe in the Constitution
Will there be opposition to fixing it?
Yes
Can the opposition be defeated within a reasonable period of time?
Yes
How long is reasonable?
4 years
How realistic are your expectations about whether it can be fixed?
Sadly, not very....
How realistic are your expectations with regard to time?
Sadly, not very....
If it can't be fixed, have you considered other solutions regarding your disappointment with the present state of affairs in the United States?
Yes
Could other countries offer the freedom you seek?
No
Are there other existing countries that offer more freedom than what is currently offered in the United States?
No
If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there?
I'd leave today.
How would the United States respond to one state's elective and voluntary peaceable declaration of its own independence from the United States?
Remember the Civil War?
Would the United States be willing to use military action including the killing of peaceful secessionists?
See above
If a Boris Yeltsin took a stand in the state capitol, would the United States send in the tanks and kill him and/or his compatriots?
Yes, Remember Waco?
If the United States were actually willing to use force to surpress a state's secession, would you still want to live in the United States?
No
Would that be the final straw proving to any "doubting Thomas"es that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States are now empty meaningless words that no longer have validity as ideas?
Yes
Would this be the proof to some that the United States is now no different from any other form of tyranny?
I already suspect this to be the case
If one state successfully and peaceably seceded, would others follow?
Absolutely
Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competeing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states?
Perhaps, not a bad idea....
Could our freedoms and liberties be restored more certainly and more quickly by forcing governments to compete with one another in an effort to please its citizens and/or prospective citizens?
Yes, That is the whole point of Amendment X - (largely ignored)
Does the United States have a monopoly on government?
No
Is the military superiority that the United States possesses over the rest of the world sufficient reason for its citizens to sacrifice their freedoms in the interests of security?
No
Could the military strength and superiority of the United States be obtained through the equivalent of a North American Nato?
Maybe?....
How can we restore our freedoms without secession?
Not as long as we continue to "elect" leaders who do not follow the constitution.

Not sure how I found this thread, but I am glad I did since there seem to be some great minds at work here. Sadly, my verbal skills are average compared to my analytical skills, and I avoided reading books until I got out of college. With that disclaimer out of the way, I think that the sad truth is that the politicians we rag on so much are mostly a mirror image of the people they represent. I know it sounds trite, but we need to do a real thorough self inspection and fix ourselves first. In a kind of ironic, and wasteful way, 9/11 has served as a partial catalyst for this in my opinion. As far as what we can do politically, I am even more pessimistic. Sometimes I think that this is just the natural cycle of all political systems, and we are powerless to stop it. One thing I do know is that this republic was turned into a democracy in 1913 when the 17th Amendment was ratified, and it didn't take too long for Ben Franklin's warning to come to fruition. Congress was pretty busy that year, they also ratified the income tax amendment.

Whether we go with secession of fix the existing government, there are a few things everyone can do with their own lives to ensure liberty survives:

Separate from the corrupting pop culture (movies, videos, rock music, pornography, etc.) Reject it, Walk away from it. Everytime a movie ticket is bought, a video rented or purchased, part of that money goes to the DNC, our enemy.

Separate your children from the pop culture.

Place your children in a home school program. Pull them out of public schools, NOW.

Get out of debt. Tear up the charge cards and credit cards. Pay them off and don't allow any interest charges. Only pay cash for a good used car, if a car is needed.

Study the Constitution. Pass the insights and information along to others.

I'm sure there are other things which can be added to this list. I heard these action items at a conservative meeting a couple of years ago. They make sense to me. It's going to take self discipline and sacrifice if this country is going to be turned around or if we secede.

Short answers (I'll give fuller explanations on the individual threads):

Is the United States broken? Yes.
If it is broken, can it be fixed? Yes.
If it can be fixed, how long will it take? Best guess; 14 years.
Who will fix it? Us and like-minded people.
Will there be opposition to fixing it? Definitely
Can the opposition be defeated within a reasonable period of time? IMHO, "reasonableness" is not something to be considered in terms of length of time. See my answer to the following, linked question.
How long is reasonable? As short as it takes; I would like to enjoy some semblance of liberty in my lifetime, and the longer I can enjoy it, the better.
How realistic are your expectations about whether it can be fixed? No better than 1 to 3 odds, but we must try.
How realistic are your expectations with regard to time? Hopefully, I'm realistic. It will take 8 unbroken years of conservative leadership (not just conservatism, and not just leadership) to get us to the point where freedom has a chance. IMHO, so long as this world exists, we will never cease to be under assault.
If it can't be fixed, have you considered other solutions regarding your disappointment with the present state of affairs in the United States? I've started to.
Could other countries offer the freedom you seek? Possible, but unlikely
Are there other existing countries that offer more freedom than what is currently offered in the United States? There used to be. Australia was once another beacon of freedom.
If one state were to secede and offer a Constitutional Republic like the one we had, would you consider living there? When do I move?
How would the United States respond to one state's elective and voluntary peaceable declaration of its own independence from the United States? Completely dependent on 2 factors; which state it is (they might let a state where there is no major economic or military presence go) and who is in charge.
Would the United States be willing to use military action including the killing of peaceful secessionists? You betcha.
If a Boris Yeltsin took a stand in the state capitol, would the United States send in the tanks and kill him and/or his compatriots? If the right kind of leader is in DC, and the state is not economically or militarily vital to the US, no. Otherwise, yes.
If the United States were actually willing to use force to surpress a state's secession, would you still want to live in the United States? I hate to use the word "depends", but it depends on why that state is leaving. If it were for Constitutional reasons, I'd seek to bail on the US. If it were to set up a system of government that further violated the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, I'd stay in the US.
Would that be the final straw proving to any "doubting Thomas"es that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States are now empty meaningless words that no longer have validity as ideas? No more than the current body of evidence is the final straw to the doubting Thomases.
Would this be the proof to some that the United States is now no different from any other form of tyranny? I've already seen enough to know that the US is a tyranny. See above for whether I think that this specific act would convince any of the sheeple.
If one state successfully and peaceably seceded, would others follow? Yes.
Would we see groups of states organizing as regional republics competeing for citizens by offering more freedom than their neighboring nation/states? This is an intriguing idea, one that would appeal to us, but I don't quite see too much competition in this arena.
Could our freedoms and liberties be restored more certainly and more quickly by forcing governments to compete with one another in an effort to please its citizens and/or prospective citizens? Nice idea, but there's too much other stuff on the buffet table for this to work.
Does the United States have a monopoly on government? No, but it does have supremacy.
Is the military superiority that the United States possesses over the rest of the world sufficient reason for its citizens to sacrifice their freedoms in the interests of security? Hell no.
Could the military strength and superiority of the United States be obtained through the equivalent of a North American Nato? Probably
How can we restore our freedoms without secession? The only way is a systematic and sustained election of those who believe in following the Constitution.

War is coming. It is best to abandon our illusions and prepare for it. We're past the point of debate. We cannot and will not be able to vote or talk our way out of it. It is not a matter of if, it is merely a matter of when. 09/11 altered the timetable somewhat, and it did have the beneficial effect on some folks akin to that of a bucket of ice water in the face. But it didn't take long for the rats and the vermin to crawl back out from under their rocks, agendas and intent intact.

War is coming. Some may prefer to remain passive until the conflict reaches them. Others may prefer a more proactive approach, especially with respect to certain anti-American, anti-Constitutional apparatchiks, i.e., the politicians who believe that they rule with impunity.

War is coming. The Republic will be restored on the graves of traitors, patriots and innocents alike. Perhaps we'll learn something this time around.