Posted on 03/30/2002 2:37:53 AM PST by vooch
Phoney Refugee Camps Found in KosovoBy William Dorich
Note: Rev. Bigler made numerous attempts to meet with Albanian officials in Kosovo but Albanians thwarted these attempts. He took video footage of his entire visit and numerous photographs.
November 23, 1998-The week before NATO was prepared to bomb the Kosovo Serbs, I had a lengthy conversation with Rev. Robert Bigler, a pastor of the First Presbyterian church of Butte, Montana. He had read some of my recent articles about Kosovo including my attack against Pastor Craig Barnes, National President of the Presbyterian Church who used their Washington DC cathedral for a Bosnian Task Force Symposium on December 6th, 1997, in which Serbs were ostracized and vilified from inside the sanctuary of this Christian church. That presentation was nationally televised on C-Span. "The truth," said Rev. Bigler, "seems to be going down a black hole-just like it did in Vietnam."
At the beginning of my interview, Pastor Bigler said he wanted to clear the air that he did not go to Kosovo in the interest of the Serbian people of Butte or for any side. "Besides, Bigler added, I am the interim pastor of the First Presbyterian Church in Butte, I am from Idaho Falls, Idaho, and I have only been in Butte since February 9th of this year-I barely know these Butte people.
Rev. Bigler is a former Army chaplain and medical specialist who served this country in Vietnam. He is no stranger to warfare and its victims, nor is he distracted by those who manipulate the facts in war to serve a political agenda. "For the sake of the integrity of my own church, I went to Kosovo to investigate the truth personally. I stopped relying on the nightly news and the media driven version of Kosovo, remember, I had firsthand experience in Vietnam, and when I read about some of the battles I witnessed with my own eyes, the news accounts were pure fiction, why should Bosnia or Kosovo be any different?"
I told Rev. Bigler that I, too, was interested in what he discovered in Kosovo, regardless if it went against my belief system and the Serbs whom I have defended for several years. I assured him that regardless of his findings, I would print his story in the American Srbobran. I am not happy that the news he brings back from Kosovo confirms my worst fears, that this is a Jihad, a religious war to create a Muslim state in Europe, regardless of how small, or at what human sacrifice.
I was granted this interview, three weeks after Rev. Bigler returned from Kosovo. I discovered an all together different Presbyterian minister than the one I had previously spoken with a month earlier. He had become a man with a cause who discovered the truth and was then victimized by the news media as we Serbs have been victimized for the past 6 years. He now refused to let the media mock what he knows to be the truth. His own local newspaper, The Montana Standard, conducted a two hour interview, promising the pastor front page headlines and a truthful presentation of what he had discovered in the Balkans. However, the article was postponed for two weeks, obviously until after the public interest in the Kosovo story had diminish and disappeared from the front pages of America's newspapers. The article written by Lorie Hutson, was an opinion piece about Kosovo peppered with enough of Bigler's remarks that it could technically qualify as an interview.
Q: What was your initial impression of Kosovo?
Bigler went on to disclose, "All of these structures were Albanian in architecture with high walls surrounding them-not out in the open like the houses of the Serbs and other ethnic minorities in Kosovo. In Pristina, a city of about 400,000, nearly all of the apartments in the 10-12 story range had satellite dishes pointing toward Albania. Where is the money coming for all of this I asked myself?"
Bigler also discovered another revelation, "By contrast, I did not find any building whatsoever taking place in the Serbian areas I had passed through or visited. In fact, Richard Holbrooke was staying at the Hyatt Hotel in Belgrade. Nearby the Hyatt are four unfinished hotels contemplated to be as large as the Hyatt, stopped in mid-construction by American sponsored sanctions, unemployment in Serbia is rampant with nearly 75% of the population out of work. How in God's name do you create peace under such deplorable conditions?"
What Rev. Bigler discovered is that the money for this building boom in Kosovo is coming from illegal activities-gun running, drugs, prostitution and the sale of arsenals stolen from the Albanian government last year, being resold to Albanian terrorists. Rev. Bigler also discovered that the 3% tax imposed by the illegal (shadow) government of Kosovo headquartered in Ulm, Germany, was no state secret. Those same Albanians in Kosovo refuse to pay their share of taxes to the Serbian government of whose nation they are citizens.
Q: Could you confirm the alleged oppression of Albanians by the Serbian government?
Q: Did you read the Albanian newspapers in Kosovo?
Q: Could you confirm that Albanians represent 1.8 million in Kosovo?
Q: Did you stop people at random and speak with them? Q: Are the Serbs in Kosovo suffering in this war?
Q: Did the Serbian government give you complete access to the people of Kosovo?
Q: Tell me about the phoney refugee camps.
Q: Was there an apparent shortage of food?
Q: We hear about the KLA walking around with weapons, what can you tell us about this?
Q: Did you feel safe? A: "The only time I was scared was when my driver took me from the Serbian Monastery of Pec to Pristina. We drove over 100 miles per hour. Keep in mind these are not Montana highways as you and I know them. The reason given was that it is much more difficult for snipers to get a good shot when you are traveling at such a high rate of speed. Notice that none of the media stories dwell on the number of Serb and Albanian victims that were killed by snipers."
Q: I understand that you were on Belgrade television?
Q: Did you meet with the Serbian Patriarch? Q: Who in the Serbian government did you meet?
When I arrived in Kosovo I had a meeting with high governmental officials in the Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija, Zoran Andjelovic, President of the Provisional Executive Council of Kosovo and members of the provincial council which consisted of two Albanians and one Turkish representative, I apologize for not remembering their names, most of the people I met gave me business cards. I also had meetings with Veljko Odalovic, head of the district of Kosovo and Metohija and Bosko Drobnjak, Provincial Information Secretary. On my return to Belgrade I met with Dr. Miroljub Jeftic, eminent expert in the field of Islam at the faculty of Political Sciences followed by a meeting with the Minister for National Minority Affairs of the Republic of Serbia, Mr. Ivan Sedlak. I also met with Tatjana Lenard, Chief Editor for Foreign Affairs for Radio/Television, Serbia, Belgrade.
An interesting side note, on my return to Butte from Kosovo I was greeted with a telephone call from the Lasiewicz Foundation of Los Angeles who then sent me 17 pages on my fax machine in an attempt to convince me that what I saw with my own eyes in Kosovo was a mirage and therefore I was encouraged to believe her propaganda. Thank you, Mr. Dorich, for informing me that she has never been to Bosnia or Kosovo and that what little humanitarian aid her foundation gave to Bosnian victims went only to non-Serbs. I believe I sensed that from her need to belittle Serbs in our conversation. I have now come to realize that the forces of Islam and the enormous resources being spent in media manipulation is behind this farce to rob the Serbian nation and her people of what is rightfully theirs."
Q: Did you meet with any foreign diplomats?
Q: Now that you have been to Kosovo what do you think is behind this NATO driven policy?
In my opinion, we seem determined to decided for the Serbian people who is qualified to run their government, then shove that decision down their throats. After we have succeeded in destroying their economy we now offer them IMF loans as the carrot at the end of our stick, knowing full well the Serbian people are no longer capable of repaying such loans in this life time or the next. Then, like we are currently doing in Brazil, we will ride in on our white horse and help them survive by buying as many of their national assets as we can get our hands on ... at 20 cents on the dollar, of course. This is truly the tail wagging the dog in our foreign policy. We have allowed the media and special interest groups to distort the truth and to portray the Serbian people as Nazis in order to steal their natural resources. I do not support the Milosevich regime, but, I am totally against achieving political goals by starving a nation of people into submission while denying them medicine and food. That, Mr. Dorich, is genocide by sanctions, and it's just as ugly as anything that was done in this war.
The Serbian government has nearly a billion dollars in frozen assets outside of their country, $600 million in the United States. My goal is to unfreeze these assets and allow the people of Serbia the human dignity of proper medical care. Before this war, Yugoslavia ranked 3rd in medical care in Europe, today they rank at the level of a 3rd world country. Serbian children have died from a simple lack of antibiotics while our elected officials preached self-determination and democracy. For the last seven years, 95% of the Serbian people have received no medical care whatsoever.
As a medical specialist, I can assure you that the Serbian people suffer from the same percentage per capita of cancer, heart disease and diabetes in their population as the population in the United States. Withholding medicine and medical care from this population for seven years has increased the rate of death from these diseases in Serbia by as much as 20%. Those who have died have suffered inconceivable deaths without traditional pain-killing drugs. This is inhuman, unacceptable and damned unchristian.
Serbian children have already been doomed to a shortened life span that may not be reversible. It is therefore my goal to organize humanitarian aid through the Presbyterian church and through other organizations to distribute aid directly into Belgrade if I have to fly the airplanes myself. I was told by numerous people in the medical system in Serbia that the limited assistance that was attempted to reach the Serbian people during the Bosnian war was pilfered at Serbia's borders by Serbia's neighbors as the United Nations and world looked away. As a Christian minister I refuse to allow people to become complacent or silence, or worse, to seek vengeance believing that Serbs deserve this kind of punishment. No society, especially the American society, can subvert our dedication to human rights by a willful lack of conscience."
Note: Rev. Bigler made numerous attempts to meet with Albanian officials in Kosovo but Albanians thwarted these attempts. He took video footage of his entire visit and numerous photographs.
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Vice-President: Mohamed Shahabuddeen (Guyana)
Presiding Judges:
Richard George May (United Kingdom)
Wolfgang Schomburg (Germany)
Liu Daqun (China)
Judges:
Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba (Zambia)
David Anthony Hunt (Australia)
Patrick Lipton Robinson (Jamaica)
Mehmet Güney (Turkey)
Asoka de Zoysa Gunawardana (Sri Lanka)
Fausto Pocar (Italy)
Theodor Meron (United States of America)
Amin El Mahdi (Egypt)
Carmel A.Agius (Malta)
Alphonsus Martinus Maria Orie (Netherlands)
O-gon Kwon (Korea)
Ad Litem Judges:
Amarjeet Singh (Singapore)
Maureen Harding Clark (Ireland)
Ivana Janu (Czech Republic)
Chikako Taya (Japan)
Fatoumata Diarra (Mali)
Sharon A. Williams (Canada)
Rafael Nieto-Navia (Colombia)
So Judges from 23 different countries are all in on the "conspiracy".
Theres a word for people like you........Paranoid
Does it bother you that the trial of Milosevic, billed as the biggest of this century, was 'muffled' after only 2 days of witnesses? All were exposed by Milosevic including your Paddy.
Now the 'kangaroo' court enginneered a 'trial suspention' in order to refabricate a 'case'. They didn't make a dent in Milosevic with 14 political 'witnesses', so I wonder what they're up to now. We'll find out Monday, but we'll have to monitor the 'kangaroo trial' on the Net partly during the 'night', as it isn't being factually commented on by the 'media',and the 'transcripts' are being short circuited to the 'archive' bin.
This 'kangaroo trial', sadly enginneered by the Brits, bothers us here on FR.
How many Serbians are on your list? None! Hardly a case of being judged by your peers.
What is their juristiction, does it include Englands' Blair?
Some of the 23 'judges may not be on the conspiracy, but like the pay. Guess we'll have to see how the 'judge' from the cicoms votes, but it won't matter as the 'fix' is in with a Brit and Hun in the majority. Some justice!
Wherever you are from, if you change the words of your comments from 'Serbs' to 'Jews', 'blacks', 'women', 'Britishpeople' or whatever group, there would (rightly) be outrage if you said that to murder innocents was 'justified'. Both JMS and I have asked you why this is different to saying that it is 'fair retribution' for white British people to be killed by black Africans. You haven't answered that.
To say that it is alright to kill one race or nationality is repugnant and nobody here on these threads (including Serbian Freepers) says that it is right for any innocent civilian to be killed. The KLA are internationally-recognised terrorists and [proper] international law states quite clearly that a person cannot be a combatant and a civilian.
You cannot post endless reams of tabloid and mainstream articles which are contributing in no way to any sort of discussion. If you want to answer specific questions or discuss specific points, that's one thing. But to post as 'responses' 5 full text articles in a row is not what people do here (even if they disagree hotly with each other). They post extracts and links unless the stories are short, or they start new threads.
What is your problem with Serbian people exactly? Does it extend to Croatians, Macedonians or Bosnian Serbs?
You have done something very provocative by calling yourself 'A'Brit' and then accusing anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier and spouting hate against the Serbian nation (or any nation). I don't know a single 'Brit' who thinks that it was still right to attack fellow Europeans. They either (sadly) don't give a damn now, or they thought that it was wrong to begin with. Sounds like you would like to do the whole state terrorism thing again. The Union Jack has been hijacked by enough racists and low lifes without you bringing it on here.
BTW: Amnesty has condemned the killing of Serbian and other people (including many Albanians) by the KLA. They also condemned the bombing by Nato (albeit too quietly).
I am convinced he is an Albanian or related to Albanians (hey, he might be a heroin dealer for the Albanian mafia, so natuarlly he is concerned for his "business partners" in Kosovo)
Exactly!
You said of me:
"To say that it is alright to kill one race or nationality is repugnant".
I said post number 137:
By the way, I am not in favour of retribution, but human nature being what it is, there was bound to be a lot in these circumstances.
A bit like feelings of retribution from the USA, after 9/11.
Can you imagine the stiuation if 250 million US citizens were forced out of their country by intimidation and atrocity. That is the scale.
Would there be retribution?
You bet your bottom dollar there would.
Kate why dont you read what I actually say, instead of what you imagine?
You ask, "What is your problem with Serbian people exactly?"
My problem with the Serbs is that they were responsible for the mass expulsion of one million Albanian Muslims from their homes in Kosovo, and also mass torture, widespread murder, and rape, according to OSCE, Amnesty International, every reputable news source, every Western democratic government. A number of Serbs have already been found guilty of those crimes by the tribunal, which is comprised of judges from 23 different countries.
You say: I don't know a single 'Brit' who thinks that it was still right to attack fellow Europeans
Your memory lets you down. The front page of the Daily Mirror on the day before the British troops were to cross into Kosovo, had a full colour picture of a Ghurka, with the caption, "Its up to you Slobbo", and text pointing out how many Victoria Crosses had been awarded to the Ghurkas, and the fact that once the Ghurkas had drawn their Khukris, they could not sheath them until blood had been drawn.
There was in fact, contrary to what you say, widespread public support for military action against the Serbs.
My other problem with the Serbs is that they are repeat offenders. They used military force against the Slavonians, the Croats, and the Bosnians, and the threat of force agaist the Montenegrins, according to all the sources I site above. Serbs have also been tried and found guilty of war crimes against the people of those countries.
Both JMS and I have asked you why this is different to saying that it is 'fair retribution' for white British people to be killed by black Africans. You haven't answered that.
I have met an ex sergeant major in the Rhodesian Light Infantry who described to me in detail, how many black terrorist/resistance fighters he and his unit killed.
While I have never said that it is "fair" for anyone to kill anyone else, I would say exactly the same about the black africans, I would understand how they would feel the need for retribution, and how they could hate whites.
You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do
and spouting hate against the Serbian nation (or any nation).
Where exactly have I spouted hate against the Serbs, or any nation?
I dont hate the Serbs, but I do hate what a lot of them have done, and I do hate people who are party to the crime, those who deny or ignore it.
You say: BTW: Amnesty has condemned the killing of Serbian and other people (including many Albanians) by the KLA. They also condemned the bombing by Nato (albeit too quietly).
Amnesty called for investigation of allegations of war crimes by NATO, those allegations were rejected by the War Crimes Tribunal. It is not a war crime to accidentally kill civilians, it has to be deliberate. As to the television broadcasting tower, I would guess that this was being used for military communications by the Serbs, and I would guess the Serbs had been forwarned of an attack by NATO.
And by the way, yes, I have been to Yugoslavia.
so you support the murder of civilians ?
BTW.....it has already been established that the KVM & OSCE reports were falsified by higher ups. No sense in posting any of their reports.
Also please note, If the HumWarriors version of the Kosovo and Metohija story was correct (ie genocidal Serb Government vs. civilian population) then the civilian murder rate should have dropped once the Government was replaced by Kfor.......instead the civilian murder rate has gone up between 2-5 times since Kfor took over.
For example.....In 1998, about 110 civilians were killed in KosMet
compared with In 2000, more than 246 civilians were murdered
Since Kfor & the KLA took responsibility for the safety and security of the people at least 1,100 civilains have been killed and 1,300 'disappeared' presumbed dead.
Abrit, this little thread started with a Conservative Montana Minister going to Kosovo and reporting back that the Media was telling lies.......Your first response was to tell us that Yugoslavia was a member of the communist military bloc and therefore that somehow justified bombing.......When that contention was throughly discredited, you then moved on to posting the same-old-worn-out-luird-tales-designed to foster race hatred which have ALSO been long since discredited...........
Instead of parroting the tired old mythology of Clinton's War......why don't you tell us just how much better life is in Kosovo now that Blair and Clinton have left their mark there ? The HumWarriors have been in Kosovo for niegh on 3 years now.....certainly it is reasonable to expect a comparaison.......
"You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do."
That is such a repugnant thing to say. Do you understand the role played by the Serbian people during WWII and how many Jewish people were sheltered by them?
Not to mention the fact that plenty of extremely good people were against the bombing.
As for your example about the attitude of fellow 'British' people (oo-kay) we can all find many who supported the bombing during the bombing (as in your chosen headline, and I suspect, reading matter). I'm speaking about afterwards. Kosovo is a mess - the whole region is a mess. The bombing was a disaster and killed thousands in the process.
BTW.....it has already been established that the KVM & OSCE reports were falsified by higher ups. No sense in posting any of their reports....
By which authoritative source have they been discreditedIf the HumWarriors version of the Kosovo and Metohija story was correct (ie genocidal Serb Government vs. civilian population) ......800,000 people fled, 200,000 more internally displaced..
Your first response was to tell us that Yugoslavia was a member of the communist military bloc .......When that contention was throughly discredited......Yugoslavia was communist, Milosevic was a lifelong communist.
why don't you tell us just how much better life is in Kosovo.......well most of the 800,000 went back to Kosovo and stayed. The proof of the pudding...
Oh, and lest we forget for everyone here who was against Clinton and Blair's bombing campaign:
A'Brit': "You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do."
That was such a ridiculously offensive and ignorant thing to say that it's quite astounding.
You didn't say whereabouts in Yugoslavia you had 'visited' and how you managed to avoid meeting any Serbs when you were there.
Milosevic joined the party while still in highschool (1959), and later enrolled in law school in Belgrade. Some of his erstwhile colleagues who later became dissidents remember Milosevic as an excellent party organizer (he was later called "our little Lenin" by his comrades). He was soon recognized as such, becoming the head of the student party organization at the Faculty of Law in Belgrade, and later (1963-65), the ideological secretary of the University Committee of Belgrade. Subsequently, Milosevic worked in managerial positions and as a president of one of the large Belgrade banks.More
Political Career:Named leader of Belgrade Communist Party, 1984; Named leader of Serbian Communist Party, 1987; Elected president of Serbian republic, 1989; Inaugurated president of Yugoslavia, 1997. More
A bureaucrat who might have remained peacefully behind a desk, he rode the coat tails of Peter Stambolic, another Communist official whose family was extremely well-connected within Yugoslavia, from Director of the State-run gas monopoly to President of the Bank of Belgrade to the leadership of the Belgrade and finally the Serbian Communist parties.More
Kate, why don't you check your facts?
Don't you realise that if you are wrong about something as basic as this, then your whole understanding of what happened is called into question?
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