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FreeRepublic: A place for "grass-roots conservatism on the web" or not?
Me

Posted on 03/28/2002 8:04:49 AM PST by sheltonmac

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To: hobbes1
Political speech, in this bill, is curtailed in a certain period of time.No speech has been outlawed. There is a difference, and were it not for the hysteria induced myopia, you would see that.

"A certain period of time!?" Okay, you're free to write about candidates after we've ensured that it won't make any difference.

681 posted on 03/29/2002 9:40:56 AM PST by supercat
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To: hobbes1
Political speech, in this bill, is curtailed in a certain period of time.

How about we forbid Congress from passing any legislation during those same time periods?

682 posted on 03/29/2002 9:41:28 AM PST by supercat
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To: supercat
I'd settle for requiring them to show the Constitutional Authority for Each bill, in Each bill.
683 posted on 03/29/2002 9:45:07 AM PST by hobbes1
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To: ThomasJefferson
[hypothetical Bush quote]"I will veto any bill which infringes the right of any American to speak his mind on any subject at any time. The first amendment benefits all Americans and insures all of our other freedoms. I will never sell out the American people for any reason whatsoever."

He would be more popular than he is now across every spectrum of the body politic. He would also have secured his place in history.

But he didn't do that, he doesn't have the courage or the brains.

The First Amendment's restrictions on Congress are more explicit and absolute than those applied by the Fourteenth Amendment to the states. After all, the authors of those amendments never intended to legalize libel or other such practices, but they recognized that since such things fell quite adequately within state jurisdiction and there was thus no need for Congress to legislate them.

Nonetheless, state statutes which attempted to do what this CFR abomination does at a national level have been consistently struck down by courts which held that political speech is speech, and that laws restricting it abridge the rights of free speech.

Bush would have been able to cite from an ample array of court precedents if he were to denounce this abomination as unconstitutional. Unfortunately, he failed to do so.

684 posted on 03/29/2002 9:47:40 AM PST by supercat
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Comment #685 Removed by Moderator

Comment #686 Removed by Moderator

To: infowars
Yes, it was proposed a while back, but defeated.
687 posted on 03/29/2002 10:15:36 AM PST by hobbes1
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To: EBUCK
Sorry, you are right, it's hard money. And hard money means direct contribution from citizens, it doesn't mean money given to a candidate.

Eg: Any pro-life organization out there can collect $$$ from their membership and buy any number of issue ads to run right through elections supporting their stand. The ad just can't promote (or discourage) voting for a candidate by name.

688 posted on 03/29/2002 10:28:16 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: supercat
"Yes, but what about the right of groups to put out ads that neither candidate particularly wants to see?"

The bill does not stop them from doing that, as long as they use hard money (direct donations) and identify the source.

689 posted on 03/29/2002 10:30:18 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: lexel
"...the battle for liberty has been narrowed to Democrats and Republicans vs. The People..."

While it is very Patriotic sounding rhetoric, like it or not Democrats an Republicans ARE the people. Not only that, but they are the VAST majority of the people.

690 posted on 03/29/2002 10:34:37 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Hard" money is regulated/documented money given to any group?

I don't think so but give me a chance to look up the gubment definition of "hard" money and I'll get back to ya.

EBUCK

691 posted on 03/29/2002 10:35:34 AM PST by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
Look up a thread I posted last week called "Who wins and who loses with CFR", thre's a pretty fair breakdown on the bill there.
692 posted on 03/29/2002 10:38:02 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: hobbes1
I'd settle for requiring them to show the Constitutional Authority for Each bill, in Each bill.

They should have to show Constitutional authority at the beginning of each bill.

Can you imagine the beginning of the CFR bill.

"Persuant to the Constitutional authority granted this congress by the 1st Ammendment to curtail political free speech.....blah, blah."

I'm sure that would fly!!!!LOL

EBUCK

693 posted on 03/29/2002 10:43:57 AM PST by EBUCK
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Democrats an Republicans ARE the people. Not only that, but they are the VAST majority of the people.

This statement is demonstrably incorrect. They aren't even the majority much less the vast majority. Do the math.

694 posted on 03/29/2002 10:46:54 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: hobbes1
Well, since you like to deal in the "fairly obvious", how about a "fairly obvious" question?

[You]....when the Court shreds the bill, it will be DEAD.

Oh, good. I rejoice. And what if they don't? Who is the Rhodes scholar then? Will you freely present yourself in the public square for flogging?

Mind you, some TV punditary Court followers have already been opining that there's good reason to think CFR will be found constitutional by the Rehnquist Court, so your optimism mystifies me. Given that this Court has already found against your side once on a similar case, where is font of your enthusiasm for rejoining the issue?

Methinks you just want the issue off the table to shut the DemonRats up ..... you've given up on it, in other words, and are now toying with people you consider beneath the salt intellectually, hence all the insulting references.

Well, if I were you, I'd start putting together a collection of nice, soft, comfy flannel shirts. You're going to need them to protect what's left of your skin, after SCOTUS rolls over on you and sends you down to the public square for your chastisement.

695 posted on 03/29/2002 10:51:55 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Yah, I was on that thread I think. (maybe not, there are so many CFR threads)

Here is my break down. If I, as an individual, want to speak out in the media I am not allowed to do so. In their quest to make it hard for the rich to get their voice heard they have made it illegal for me to do so without contributing to a party/PAC.

EBUCK

696 posted on 03/29/2002 10:54:15 AM PST by EBUCK
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To: ThomasJefferson
"This statement is demonstrably incorrect."

If that's the case, why are you asking me to prove your statement true?

697 posted on 03/29/2002 11:00:17 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: BluesDuke
He could well enough have vetoed CFR ...

Okay, so why'd he sign it, when he didn't have to?

His signing it just becomes harder and harder to understand. I followed hobbes1's argument (though I think he's wrong, and the Pubbies are going to get burned bigtime), but does the President really intend to rely on the Supreme Court instead of stepping up to a piece of legislation he knows is wrong?

698 posted on 03/29/2002 11:02:53 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Luis Gonzalez
When less than half of the voting population even votes it'll be damn hard to prove that the republicrats are in a "Vast" majority.

BTW, See post 212 on the thread you directed me to.

EBUCK

699 posted on 03/29/2002 11:03:45 AM PST by EBUCK
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To: lentulusgracchus
does the President really intend to rely on the Supreme Court instead of stepping up to a piece of legislation he knows is wrong?

Either that, unpalatable as it may be, or face the fact that Bush does not care about the Constitution. Put yourself into a BBNs (Bush-Brown-Noser) shoes and which would you choose to advocate?

EBUCK

700 posted on 03/29/2002 11:06:00 AM PST by EBUCK
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