Report of American small arms performance infantry unit in Afghanistan

E-Mail | 3/26/2002 | John Farnam

[45Auto]

I have been experimenting with an AR-15 fitted with a 16" barrelled 7.62 x 39 chambering. This is not a new idea, to use the .30 Russian (short) in the AR. Colt manufactured such uppers many years ago, and DPMS makes a 20 inch HBAR version. I got the barrel from Olympic Arms, they also sell a complete upper. The big problem is that nobody seems to make a decent magazine for this caliber in the AR 15. Part of the problem is that the magazine well in the AR is too long to use modified AK mags (or even Ruger Mini 30 mags). The 30 Russian short requires a much more pronounced 'banana' bend in the mag than does the 5.56 mm.

The thing works fairly well if I use the Colt ten-round mag (actually merley an AR 15 .223 mag with a modified follower), but I cannot load more than five rounds into it if I want it to feed reliably. I have heard from some law enforcement guys that they have had special mags made up in which they cut off the upper portion of a 5.56 mag and weld on the bottom of a 20 round AK mag.

This round uses the 122 FMJ or the 123 or 125 soft point bullet. I load my rounds with the Hornady 122 FMJ using the Finn powder, VN 120. If I use the book load, the recoil is substantially greater than the 5.56 round loaded with the 75 gr Hornady. I suspect the impact from the 30 Russian would make more of an impression on the ragheads than the 5.56, although we would have to ask the Russian troops that were there before..... The other solution is to gear up production of the AR 10, or to issue the M-14. As far as pistols go, gimme the 1911 in .45 ACP everytime.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I prefer both. An M-4 for close in and patrol work and a DSA Scoped FN FAL 308 for terrain work. Either way, supply of ammo is a must. Not to mention a nice 50 cal for that all too important geewizwow factor at the range.

[river rat]

Sorry....I have no point of reference for these new lighter modern rounds...

I carried an issued M14, a personal .45 and a knife that could shave a monkey's ass without awakening him from a light nap.

I heard that, by weight, you can carry 2x/3x as much 5.xx as 7.62. That may be true... But, given what I've heard that it may take three hits from a 5.xx to put the bastard down for his dirt nap, what's the advantage?

The 7.62 would truly reach out and permanently impress the intended receiver... One correctly placed shot was ALWAYS sufficient... The AK47 is no slouch...it is crude, simple, reliable, and will make a mess of your day... Even in the hands of children. Their sound is so distinctive, it still raises the hair on my neck.

It has been said: That one used AK47 would get you a full case of Scotch and two boxes of FINE cigars from the gutsy sailors that brought supplies up the coast.
Semper Fi

[Travis McGee]

I love these gun threads as you can tell, but when all is said and done I stick by this formula: it's 80% the shooter and 20% the gun, if that.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I cracked myself up rethinking that phrase to: "It's 80% the thrower and 20% the grenade!"

[Travis McGee]

Especially if the grenade bounce off a branch and comes back.

[river rat]

You're probably right about the shooter vs gun...
But, like you - I like fine mechanical things, especially watches, cars and guns...
Do yourself a favor, and go to your friendly gun peddler and check out all the beautiful pieces from Kimber... Their high end, light weight .45s are unbelievable... I couldn't resist. Got one - and OUT OF THE BOX shot better than any pistol I've ever owned with FACTORY AMMO.

The Ultra CDP will slip into the front pocket of Levis or into a lightweight jacket pocket. Light enough to carry all day --- heavy enough to do the job.
Semper Fi

[PatrioticAmerican]

I was watching Discovery channel about the Rangers last night. One guy threw a grenade uphill and it rolled back, and his buddy yelled, "EVERYONE knows ya don't throw grenades UPHILL!" LOL! The way he said it cracked me up!

[Travis McGee]

I admire the Kimber's greatly, and they are "on my list"!

[Travis McGee]

That would....not be good.

[hchutch]

One word: Hollowpoints.

[Scutter]

Our military is forbidden from using hollowpoints because of some treaty (the Geneva Convention?)

[hchutch]

We are fighting someone who didn't sign said treaty.

[dub]

I have a Les Baer AR-15 using Sierra 77gr Matchking Moly.
Last summer a buddy and myself took an old Flight Data Recorder that was thrown out and set up the target 500 yards out. We both know how well built these Recorders are and tried some ammo. One was the .223 77gr Matchking. The rounds traveled 500 yards and punched holes all through the armor of the recorder. The Recorder dims (roughly) are 5.5x16.0.
Looked like a little orange dot. But my main question is what are the Ballistics out to a 1000 yards? I use 23.8grs of R-15 and
I've heard shooters reaching that far with this little cruise missile. I'm going to my new range and would like any information. Appreciate it.

[Scutter]

Dub,

I don't know. Have you tried posting this question on one of the firearms-related message boards? Try ar15.com or glocktalk.com