For Catholics: What shall we do...

Thank you Father_elijah for this thread.Bumping for a read tomorrow.My eyes are too tired to read it right now.

"The Holy Eucharist IS the Body of Christ"

Well, you can believe what you want to believe. It won't change what aint into what is (just ask Galileo). And, if you are honest with yourself, you might want to just recollect the last time you put that wafer and wine in your mouth. Can you honestly say that you tasted human flesh and blood? Did you overlook what Jesus said in the verse you quoted above ... "[63] It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

I am tired and I'm calling it a day. My sincere hope is that Jesus comes very soon. I love Him and want to be with Him. This world is not my home.

The final version of this effort can be found on this HERE

The final version of this effort can be found HERE

Sorry about the typing errors above -- I'm just very excited about Father E.'s words. We all should thank him and pray for him.

"No, I would humbly suggest you are deceived by Satan who fills your head with damnable heresies."

I consider myself in good company with the One who is my Lord and Master.

From:

John 7 [20] The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

and

John 8 [48] Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
[52] Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

Thorn11cav, I have to get some sleep since I worked a 12 hour shift last night, but I do want to say something...If I have a photograph of my parents, who are now dead, and I look at it, loving them in heaven, missing them for what they meant to me, looking forward to joining them in glory, is that worship?

A statue of Mary is nothing more than that...a photograph, not worshipped, not the REAL Mary, not the dear Mother of my God, who lives in heaven with Him and lives as a Saint today...I honor Mary. I wish I were more like her, who I conceive her to be. I do not think she could have borne my Savior if she were not sinless, and I think that she is the best that a woman can aspire to imitate...

So with the other saints, people whose lives were special to our faith...people we believe live in heaven with God, who we believe have an interest in some of us here on earth the way I think my parents in heaven have an interest in me, the way I, when I reach Glory, will have an interest in some people and my children...

I REALLY BELIEVE in Heaven! I have no idea what God has in store for those who love Him...but I'm positive it will be wonderful beyond my wildest dreams and hopes...

So when I see your post, which clearly shows that you think that we Catholics worship idols, I'm sad--we don't, but the explanation is one I hope you will understand...remember...there were no photographs until relatively recently in history...statues, stained glass windows, depictions of the saints--we don't worship them, they are aids to our worship of Christ and God...the stories of the lives of the saints, like Maximillian Kolbe, inspire me, and help teach me how I can be a fallible human in love with Christ my Savior...

I hope you'll read this and reply. Your question to me was thoughtful, and I appreciate that.

And, one more thing. Thank you for your sacrifice for our freedoms. I honor those who serve our country! Without you, we would likely not have the freedom to disagree, that we cherish so much. May your day be blessed in a special way! Many members of my closest family have served the cause of liberty at great peril, and at uncountable cost. You may not know it yet, but we are friends in Christ.

Thorn, there are, trust me on this, countless millions like me. May God be with you, today. I'm headed off to dreamland, friend.

Great ideas. We must be realistic: this scandal has been well known across the church, and sexual scandals are nothing new. For those who can't make it to the chanceries or parishes because of work or other commitments, let's remember to pray the rosary daily, and stand up for good, orthodox priests.

You are assuming I was protesting. I was not. I was speaking, though, in a general way about a phenomenon, heretofore unknown, that occurred in our country. BTW, thank you very much for your service to our country. V's wife.

>"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again."

This whole topic, of course, is as contentious as a topic can be, and I have no desire to offend people by harping on it or boring people by re-hashing old news. But, for people who are into thinking about this topic, here's an interesting passage:

1 Corinthians 11:23-34 --

For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me." In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

It seems clear from this passage, that the original Christians celebrated the "Lord's Supper" with a meal that was indistinguishable from a meal they might eat at home. Paul even has to correct them that the Lord's Supper isn't intended to satisfy physical hunger, because apparently so many people were treating the meal as a "normal" meal.

But Paul's correction tells the people to think about the INTENT of the meal, and to guide their THOUGHTS during the meal to Christ, His teachings, and His death and resurrection. Paul quotes Jesus's word, "...in remembrance of Me."

If there had been some intent to the Lord's Supper even deeper than this, even more mystical and metaphysical -- as if this wasn't enough! -- then Paul could easily have said so.

To my eyes, it seems probable that the notion of transubstantiation is a way an oppressive ecclesiastical hierarchy actually takes away from people the real meaning of the Lord's Supper, and replaces it with mystical mumbo jumbo that means different things to everyone who attempts to conceptualize it.

Please don't get me wrong here -- I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just trying to state my view of the matter clearly, so that if people are interested in this stuff, they can chalk up my particular point of view.

Mark W.

Fr. E: These are excellent reform proposals but the orthodox hierarchy is presently timid and fearful while the pro-homosexuals are bold and courageous. Lower-ranking religious and we orthodox laymen cannot expect our leaders to fight this battle in their present condition. However, by intelligently channeling our righteous anger, we numerous lower-ranking Catholics can even the equation by emboldening orthodox bishops and the pope and placing fear into the hearts of our enemies.

*Show up at the nearest Chancery on the Monday after Easter at 12 noon and pray the Rosary for the Cleansing of the Priesthood

This idea is a very promising although Easter Monday is only a week away. How about a coordinated national day of protest promoted by the conservative Catholic media, inviting people from all walks of life, in front of every chancery in North America?

Thanks, Longshanks. I do think a revolution can be organized overnight by e-mail.

If you take these suggestions, or just the one about gathering at the Chanceries on Easter Monday .. and e-mail it and print it out and give it to your friends and contacts .. and ask them to do the same, it will be amazing to see what God can do through our simple efforts.

Anyone care to comment on this Freepmail? I really need to get back off FR till after Easter but thought it necessary to at least ask for some input on these points this anti-Catholic is raising:

Re: For Catholics: What shall we do...	READ
From J*****	Received 2002-03-23 19:20:26
You stated that RC has never fallen into Apostacy on moral issues. Your wrong. The RC has wavered back and forth on the abortion issue for centuries. From the 5th century onward , Aristotles view of life was accepted in the Catholic church. GregoryVI (1045-6) said, "He is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body." Gregory XIII (1572-85) said it was not homicide to kill an embryo of less than 40 dys since it was not yet human. His successor, Sixtus V diagreed. His Bull of 1588 made all abortions for any reason homicide and cause for excommunication. His successor, Gregory XIV, reversed that decree. In 1621 the Vatican issued another Pastoral directive permitting abortions up to 40 days. As late as the 18th century one of the churches greatest theologian, St. Alphonsus de Liguori, still denied that the soul was infused at conception and allowed for flexibility, especailly when the mothers life was in danger. Finally in 1869, Pius IX declared that any destruction of any embryo was an abortion and merited excommunication. I didn't answer you in the thread because quite honestly I find debating "Spoon fed" catholics as fullfilling as trying to nail Jello to a wall. This post would bring them all out and I don't have time to answer them. The only reason I'm sending this to you is because you seem arrogant and condescending in your remarks to ex-wretch. I'll admit that self proclaimed no-it-all papists bring out an anger in me and I pray the Lord will take away. On that point let me state that I will not resond to your freepmail. I would consider it a waste of my time to debate you. I have nothing to prove. I give you facts and dates which can be verified if your honest enough to check them. Please don't use that stupid ploy that because I made the accusation it is my part to prove it. I need to prove nothing. I left the RC church you defend it with false statements of purity on moral theology. You're the one following the lie, not me. As I stated before I will not read or respond to your email. I've heard everthing your going to say many times over. One thing I forgot to say. Your post trying to blame the Rc's woes on protestant views on contraceptives is the biggest bunch of garbage i've ever seen posted on FR. it reads like every common editorial in the leftists papers: all our problems are your fault. Cmon get a grip on reality You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

You guys certainly have some house cleaning to do. Good luck (from a Southern Baptist).