[Brian Kopp DPM]

Anyone care to comment on this Freepmail? I really need to get back off FR till after Easter but thought it necessary to at least ask for some input on these points this anti-Catholic is raising:

Re: For Catholics: What shall we do...	READ
From J*****	Received 2002-03-23 19:20:26
You stated that RC has never fallen into Apostacy on moral issues. Your wrong. The RC has wavered back and forth on the abortion issue for centuries. From the 5th century onward , Aristotles view of life was accepted in the Catholic church. GregoryVI (1045-6) said, "He is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body." Gregory XIII (1572-85) said it was not homicide to kill an embryo of less than 40 dys since it was not yet human. His successor, Sixtus V diagreed. His Bull of 1588 made all abortions for any reason homicide and cause for excommunication. His successor, Gregory XIV, reversed that decree. In 1621 the Vatican issued another Pastoral directive permitting abortions up to 40 days. As late as the 18th century one of the churches greatest theologian, St. Alphonsus de Liguori, still denied that the soul was infused at conception and allowed for flexibility, especailly when the mothers life was in danger. Finally in 1869, Pius IX declared that any destruction of any embryo was an abortion and merited excommunication. I didn't answer you in the thread because quite honestly I find debating "Spoon fed" catholics as fullfilling as trying to nail Jello to a wall. This post would bring them all out and I don't have time to answer them. The only reason I'm sending this to you is because you seem arrogant and condescending in your remarks to ex-wretch. I'll admit that self proclaimed no-it-all papists bring out an anger in me and I pray the Lord will take away. On that point let me state that I will not resond to your freepmail. I would consider it a waste of my time to debate you. I have nothing to prove. I give you facts and dates which can be verified if your honest enough to check them. Please don't use that stupid ploy that because I made the accusation it is my part to prove it. I need to prove nothing. I left the RC church you defend it with false statements of purity on moral theology. You're the one following the lie, not me. As I stated before I will not read or respond to your email. I've heard everthing your going to say many times over. One thing I forgot to say. Your post trying to blame the Rc's woes on protestant views on contraceptives is the biggest bunch of garbage i've ever seen posted on FR. it reads like every common editorial in the leftists papers: all our problems are your fault. Cmon get a grip on reality You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

[patent]

Certainly. Briefly, the Church has always considered abortion wrong. Exactly how wrong has been debated. It wasn't always clear when life began, when the soul entered the body, and that has been debated back and forth. While any abortion was wrong, whether it was murder, whether you should be excommunicated, etc., have changed.

patent

[MarkWar]

>Anyone care to comment on this Freepmail? ... ask for some input on these points this anti-Catholic is raising:

Well, since you ask...

The main comment I have is that I don't see any good in labeling someone an "anti-" Catholic.

I mean, we're all trying to understand stuff that can reasonably be understood to mean many different things.

The "truth" -- whatever it turns out to be -- is not biased -- the Truth isn't "anti-" Protestant or anti- Catholic or anti or pro anything at all. It just is.

By framing life where every attempt at truth is characterized as pro or anti this or that, you are shutting yourself off from objective reality.

Jesus found fault with a lot of religious practices of the people around him. That didn't make Him "anti-Judaism"... Just the opposite.

I don't think the frmail you got was anti-Catholic. I think the person was just anti-presumptuous posturing, anti-hiding behind dogma rather than searching for truth.

That all sounds reasonable to me. Jesus didn't ask Peter what Scriptures taught about this or that. Jesus asked Peter to 1) read and understand Scripture himself; 2) look around the world at what Christ was doing; 3) compare that reality to Scripture; 4) come to a conclusion himself about whether or not Christ was the Messiah. (Even when John the Baptist's followers question Jesus, He simply quotes what Scripture says, then describes what He has been doing... He leaves it to them to put two and two together -- He doesn't refer them to their local "learned" expert...)

As near as I can see, Christ never encouraged people to blindly accept ANYTHING as dogma but was forever asking EVERYONE to evaluate everything for themselves. This was the whole point of the parables -- they forced people to sort things out in their own minds...

(And it's not anti-Catholic to observe that the focus of mainstream Catholic thought has moved away from this foundation of individual effort and individual responsibility.)

Mark W.