Killing Gentiles

Joe's mind ^ | This month | Joe Sobran

[Burkeman1]

March 12, 2002 Ariel Sharon has finally gone too far. Israel’s thuggish prime minister thought he could crush the Palestinian revolt with a policy of violence, killing Palestinians until they begged for mercy. But the policy has backfired by getting lots of Jews killed too, and the violence on both sides is escalating dangerously. Even Sharon’s indulgent American patrons, George W. Bush and Colin Powell, have called for a halt to the madness.

Sharon is acting according to his lights. He has never concealed his contempt for “the goy” — the gentile. Israel is based on the principle that Jews have rights “goyim” don’t have. Hence its abuse of Arab gentiles and its defiance of Western gentiles.

Mark Weber of the Institute for Historical Review has summed up the situation in one pithy sentence: “The truth is that if we held Israel to the same standards that we apply to Serbia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, U.S. bombers and missiles would be blasting Tel Aviv, and we’d be putting Israeli prime minister Sharon behind bars for war crimes and crimes against humanity.”

Unless I’ve missed something, even such alleged “anti-Semites” as David Duke and Louis Farrakhan don’t advocate treating Jews as Israel treats gentiles. Anyone with a spark of decency would be ashamed to treat Jews that way. Yet a gentile can be accused of anti-Semitism even for the purely verbal sin of criticizing Israel, whereas a Jew who supports Sharon’s physical cruelty is accused of ... well, nothing. We have no handy word for even the most brutal Jewish treatment of gentiles.

To challenge the Jews’ right to oppress Palestinians is called “denying Israel’s right to exist.” Apparently its “right to exist” includes the right to oppress, and is indeed inseparable from it. Even the “peace plans” that call for separate Jewish and Palestinian states seem to take for granted the right of the Jewish state to treat Arabs within its borders as inferiors.

Perish the thought that Jews and gentiles should be equal! That would be anti-Semitism.

According to Israel’s “amen corner” in this country, Israel can do no wrong, except to concede too much to the Palestinians. Israel is a heroic “democracy” even when it treats its minority like dirt, and a “reliable ally” of the United States even when it steals American military secrets and sells them to Communist countries.

It’s an article of faith among the Amen Corner that the Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard — a national hero in Israel, by the way — has been punished far too harshly for his crimes, since the United States should have shared those secrets with Israel anyway. And far from recoiling from Sharon’s brutality, the Amen Corner defends him at every turn, just as Stalin’s fellow travelers in this country used to justify Uncle Joe — except that some in the Amen Corner think Sharon isn’t going far enough.

Not all the members of the Amen Corner are Jewish. Many are Christians — a shameful fact, since they never raise their voices in defense of Palestinian Christians. “See how these Christians love one another!” This kind of loyalty might make Judas Iscariot queasy.

The obvious danger is that the United States will once more be drawn into war with Israel’s enemies, chiefly Iraq. If that happens, we probably won’t be as lucky as in the 1991 Gulf War, which ended with an easy American victory and little cost until last September 11. This time the whole Middle East could erupt in war and revolution, leaving us with countless millions of bitter enemies on top of those we already have. It will be a boon to al-Qaeda recruitment.

The U.S. Government is toying with the possibility of using nuclear weapons in the war ahead — the war that the “war on terrorism” may morph into. We can be sure that the fanatical Sharon won’t object, and some of his American apologists are sounding rather interested in the idea of nuking Arabs. If the United States does it, Israel won’t have to.

We can only hope that Bush, Powell, and the rest of the top echelon of the government — which may or may not include Congress these days — will come to their senses before they decide to strike Iraq. U.S. support for Israel has already cost us far too much, and it may yet cost us far more. Ariel Sharon leaves no excuse for blindness about what we are dealing with.

Joseph Sobran

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Mailarticle © 2001 by Gavin Spomer

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[TopQuark]

Irrelevant. No Islamic state claims to respect democracy, freedom and rights. Israel, on the other hand, claims to be a democracy That is the favorite methods of bigots who fancy themselves intellectual. They follows a three-step procedure: (i) invent a higher, more stringent standard than is universal, (ii) apply it to the subject of your hate, (iii) show that the subject fails this artificial, often unreachable standard, (iv) reach the conclusion that the subject deserved to be hated.

Well, on FR, you may add (v) get appalled that your opponents stifle "the open dialogue and discussion" when you get caught using the above-described methodology.

So, Blade, you are just disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals? You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?

I you continue to care about Israel and its democracy so much, I am afraid Mr. Sobran will count you among the "American Amen corner."

[TopQuark]

The internment of European Jews, like that of the Japanese in the United States and Canada, was carried out for security reasons.

The parallel is abolutely true and valid. As part of this process, the non-Japanese Americans gassed scores of the Japanese-Americans in these "internment" camps. For many years before that, we conducted an orchestrated campaign against our own citizens of Japanese decent. We confiscated their shops, forbade them entering into professions. Our leaders constantly spoke about the world-wide Japanese conspiracy. Our propaganda machine publised books about the Japanese killing non-Japanese children to drain blood for their rituals.

Remember all of this? All of that was done for security reasons.

For you this is the site with useful information?

This site essentially says that there is no difference between us and the Nazis, and you find it useful, Herr Goering?

[TopQuark]

The last remaining bit of respect I had for this guy is gone. Same for me: it was clear from the start that he is prejuiced and, in the very least has "an agenda" in that area. But I thought that he wrote well and, at least at times, said meaningful things.

This piece if one of the most stupid things I have seen in a while. At the level of some Saudi or Egyptian vitriol with unsupported accusations and invented "facts."

[TopQuark]

he called David Duke and Louis Farrakhan alleged "anti-Semites"

This is the device adopted recently by TV reporters that they think portrays them as objective. As in, "Socrates, an allegedly Greek philosopher..."

Maybe he always wanted to be a reported when he grows up?

[besieged]

George Washington, allegedly a patriot

Hitler, allegedly a bad man

Albert Einstein, allegedly a scientist

Bill Gates, allegedly not starving this year

Mother Teresa, allegedly helpful at times

Joeseph Stalin, allegedly paranoid at times

I think the list can be longer, but what is the point? But hey, add that magic "allegedly" in the sentence, and noone can take issue with you for choosing sides, or standing for anything!!! YUCK!

[Blade]

invent a higher, more stringent standard than is universal

OK, here we go. Where did I say Israel had to be perfect? What was the higher, more stringent “universal standard” that I “invented.” Please be specific.

apply it to the subject of your hate
show that the subject fails this artificial, often unreachable standard
reach the conclusion that the subject deserved to be hated. ,

I did that huh? ...and tell me TP, when did you stop beating your wife?

Let's see. First, you ascribe to me several premises that I do not hold, and then you use these premises to prove – what else? -- that I "hate" my subject. Such is the typical "rebuttal" from a member of the Amen Corner -- logical fallacies, lies, and the stomach punch all rolled into one. You're laughable.

disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals?

No, I am not “disturbed” (nice smear term by the way), and certainly don’t hate anybody. Disgusted would be more accurate.

I am disgusted that Israel and Jews gets away with things that NOBODY else could EVER get away with. That's why my hat's off to Joe Sobran. He has the courage to speak out.

Let's consider the roll call: the USS Liberty massacre, Pollard, AIPAC, 100 billion in US foreign aid to Israel, Israeli spy rings on US soil, Israeli foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, the list just goes on and on and on. In the meantime, most American Jews support liberal democrats, and the few conservative Jews that are out there tend to be staunch Zionists that advocate the interests of Israel over the interests of the United States.

Some say that it's improper to criticize Jews (or any other group) as Jews. It is said that it is only permissible to criticize individuals. Yet when Christians organize in their own country to advance a political agenda, we ALWAYS seem to hear about it, usually from the media and Hollywood, both of which are dominated by Jews. Or, to use Billy Graham's phrase, held in a stranglehold.

Suppose Arab Muslims dominated the Isreali media. Suppose we amended the US Constitution along the lines of the Israeli ethnic-religious model, except with white Christians taking the place of Jews.

Would that “disturb” you? If the answer is yes, you are rank hypocrite.

You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?

Again, I am not “disturbed." I am disgusted . I'm sick of the dishonesty on this topic. You can call me all the names you want now.

[boltfromblue]

Do a little complex thinking. I will agree that in the later history of the Trail of Tears, etc., not in early history, that the Indian tribes that were settled were moved off their lands, unfairly, in fact, just as Israel does the Palestinians. But at least they were allowed to live legitimately on multi-reservations to honor their tribal integrity. A far cry from what Israel allows the natives of the Palestine Territory. As to my family, the Indians whom they lived with, in the same shelters, before there were reservations to live on, for a long early history, in fact, they would have continued to live harmoniously together, just as the early 20th C. Palestinians allowed Jews in kibbutzim to live with them on their land. So did the Indians as our Thanksgiving testifies. However, when the Indians mistakenly identified us, not outsiders, as their enemy, they acted as Palestinians have, Palestinians recognizing, however, the REAL deception Zionists were about to perpetrate on them, with attacks, so a new war and escalation occurred.
Many Indians came from northern Japan across the Bering Strait, such as Apaches, Blackfeet, etc. so perhaps they should be sent back to those small islands? People have mixed amiably the world over no matter what the controlling leadership wrought, so let us leave old enmities to the past and share this land. My family worked long lives and hard for their share of this pie. My best friend as a child was an Indian who chose the military to protect this country they had come to be loyal to.
As force is not the answer, unless in coming to the aid of a persecuted people to stop the persecution, as Jews indeed benefited, you really should not adher to brute force, as, if Europeans had used it to the end as you suggest, the American Indians would have been wiped out entirely, a loss to our world. NO, since the end of empires the world has progressed to not taking others' lands as there is no other land for the people to exist on with their culture intact.

[TopQuark]

Let's consider the roll call: the USS Liberty massacre, Pollard, AIPAC, 100 billion in US foreign aid to Israel, Israeli spy rings on US soil, Israeli foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, the list just goes on and on and on. I cannot help to anyone who lives in a fantasy world.

In the meantime, most American Jews support liberal democrats, That is absolutely correct. This is becasue not only from their terrible European past but also becasue of people like you. I have always said the Republican party has done more for blacks than the Southern Democrats like the Klan memver Byrd, for instance. Yet it is the loud bigots that are allowed to stay within the conservative movement that give us a bad name and scare the minorities away.

the few conservative Jews that are out there tend to be staunch Zionists that advocate the interests of Israel over the interests of the United States. That is one explanation that you have chosen. The other may be: (i) they know right from wrong, and (ii) the live in the real world and know real facts.

[Southern Federalist]

Not all the members of the Amen Corner are Jewish. Many are Christians — a shameful fact, since they never raise their voices in defense of Palestinian Christians.

Do you suppose this is what the methane-breathing swamp-dwelling crackpot anti-Semite Sobran has in mind? --

Palestinians terrorize West Bank Christians in shakedown bid

Monday, March 11, 2002

RAMALLAH — The Fatah movement led by Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat last month launched a campaign against Christian churches and businesses around the West Bank in an attempt to extort money for local militias.

Palestinian sources said the focus of the Fatah attacks was in Ramallah, the headquarters of Arafat.

A mob led by Fatah militants attacked churches, Christian institutions and businesses during a two day period in early February. The sources said the attack was coordinated by Bashir Nafeh, a leading PA security officer and Fatah member.

The sources said the attack began on Jan. 31 when Muslims torched Christian homes and stores in Ramallah. The mob also attempted to break into the Greek and Roman Orthodox churches in the city and attacked Christians on the streets of the city. At least one Christian was killed.

The attack stemmed from Fatah attempts to force Christian businesses to pay a monthly sum to the militia. In the Kalandia refugee camp outside Ramallah, a Christian butcher refused to pay what was termed protection money and was stabbed to death.

Similar attacks were reported in Bethlehem and in the surrounding suburbs. But the largest campaign against the Christians was reported in Ramallah.

The original article is here.

I'll await with interest to hear Sobran raise his voice in defence of Palestinian Christians when it doesn't give him a chance to smear and vilify Jews. But I won't hold my breath.

[boltfromblue]

A good response! I have never heard people so willing to smear w/o a logical thought in their minds to do it with. I used to think Jews were intelligent, for no good reason it seems. Well, Einstein's grandson became a carpenter like Jesus at least, an intelligent choice?(^: BTW, you neglected to mention the Communism these people brought to our country, to this day, in fact.

[TopQuark]

Oh my G-d, I had no idea! I mean, no idea that the Palestinians were so blatent and came to physical threat. Extortion from churches! My G-d, this is really something.

I've got to tell you: when the Arafat's faction lynched an alleged collaborator right on the Manger Square last week, I thought that teh choice of the place was not an accidental. I thought that, perhaps, the poor victim they killed may have been a Palestinian Christian. However, having read your post, I suspect it must have been a continuation of the intimidation of the churches: along the lines of, "See what we can do?"

Thank you for the post, I'll clip it.

P.S. Your point about Sobran is an excellent one, too. He rides a high hourse hectoring how Christians should stand up for each other, yet he would never write about the shakedown of churches and killings. For the reason you just stated: this does not help his anti-Jewish agenda. I think you are correct on all points. Thanks again for the post --- I wish every single Sobran's supporter on this board read it.

[besieged]

What are you smoking??? Get help.

[Burkeman1]

Millions and Millions? Where? In Syria the Christian Minority is persecuted. In Egpyt the embattled Coptic Christians are subject to butcherey and murder. Please- what nonsense.

[suekas]

bump

[Burkeman1]

One can question the wisdom of the US policy of backing Isreal and not be an anti-semite. But this utter distortion of fact and reality and disgusting screed could easily be the lead column in a Saudi government paper. It is disgusting. Thanks.

[Burkeman1]

I got into an argument with a Saudi student at a bar about a year ago (this good "muslim" was suckin down staight top shelf Vodka faster than any Russian). I have very mixed views on Isreal and our committments to that state so I was open to his arguments. But when he started in about "persecution" of Palestinians in Isreal I lost it.

My Uncle and Cousin worked in Saudi Arabia for 25 years and he saw how the Saudi's treated Palestinain "guest workers". I then asked him why there are no Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia- even for the diplomats! He had no answer- got indignant at my very relevant questions and left in a huff with his entorage of euro trash and other arab rich kids.

[Burkeman1]

Kosovo was a fraud. We bombed Serbia for nothing. Isreal was against it.

[Burkeman1]

The Palestinians welcomed the "Brits" when they liberated them from Ottoman rule. And Please. Arab Israelis have more rights in Isreal than in any Arab country. They can- hey- vote! Wow- I know it is novel. You act as if Jews came in and threw the Palestinians off their land. That did not happen. That is a lie.

[wardaddy]

This guy is a nut.....Blitzkrieg fodder so to speak. Let's send him down and let him wander around Rammallah for a few minutes and kibbitz with his beloved Pali victims. He'll end like that poor bleary eyed American girl who went to Soweto to help the poor downtrodden blacks...dead.

What a weak SOB.