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Afghan commanders: Operation Anaconda a failure
AP via canoe.ca ^ | March 17, 2002

Posted on 03/17/2002 3:23:06 AM PST by Clive

GARDEZ, Afghanistan (AP) -- To some veteran Afghan commanders, the recent U.S. offensive against al-Qaida fighters in eastern Afghanistan failed because most of the enemy escaped.

Moreover, they said, this month's Operation Anaconda, the biggest U.S.-led offensive of the Afghan war, should serve as a warning of what lies ahead if the United States wants to crush al-Qaida and Taliban forces still in Afghanistan.

The Afghans, veterans of the brutal 1980s war against the Soviets, said the United States must be prepared for a protracted series of battles, in which an elusive opponent seemingly suffers a terrible pounding, only to disappear into the formidable terrain -- perhaps to return and fight another day.

"There will only be a guerrilla war with al-Qaida," said Cmdr. Abdullah, a leading Afghan military figure in Paktia province.

"They know how to fight from the jihad (against the Soviets) in small groups in the mountains."

The U.S. military has declared Operation Anaconda, which began winding down last week, a success. The U.S.-led coalition seized control of the Shah-e-Kot valley after nearly two weeks of punishing air strikes and ground combat -- losing eight U.S. and three Afghan troops.

"Operation Anaconda...is an incredible success," said Maj. Bryan Hilferty, spokesman of the U.S. 10th Mountain Division.

"It took only 20 terrorists to kill 3,000 of the world's citizens in the World Trade Towers. We've killed hundreds and that means we've saved hundreds of thousands of lives. This is a great success."

However, Afghan commanders questioned that assessment -- as well as the estimate of hundreds of al-Qaida and Taliban casualties.

"Americans don't listen to anyone," said Cmdr. Abdul Wali Zardran.

"They do what they want. Most people escaped." "You can't call that a success."

U.S. officers have publicly downplayed the significance of body counts, perhaps trying to avoid a repetition of the Vietnam experience where ground commanders felt under pressure to report elevated enemy casualties.

"I don't know why we get into a body count," said Col. Frank Wiercinski, brigade commander of the 101st Airborne Division, dismissing questions about the numbers of al-Qaida and Taliban dead.

Apart from killing al-Qaida members, the operation was successful because it broke up a major concentration in a strategic area and yielded valuable information on the terrorist network, U.S. officials said.

To the Afghans, however, killing or capturing the enemy is the whole purpose of guerrilla warfare and the principal measure of success. Otherwise, they said, the opponent will fight again somewhere, someday.

"In my opinion, the campaign failed," Abdullah said.

"There were some forces there but during the very heavy bombardment and air strikes they left."

By that measure, the Afghans find little evidence of success.

Shireen Gul, the first Afghan commander to enter Shah-e-Kot at the end of the 12-day operation, found 10 bodies scattered about the area. Cmdr. Zardran, who entered the Shah-e-Kot valley from another direction, said he found 20 bodies in one place and three in another.

Other al-Qaida fighters may have been killed during punishing bombing raids that collapsed a warren of caves burrowed into the mountains.

Asked about estimates of hundreds dead, U.S. special forces troops cite an intelligence report which said during the fighting, al-Qaida commanders sent word to a nearby village to prepare hundreds of coffins.

"We heard this thing but it's not true," Abdullah said.

"We don't put our dead in boxes. During the jihad, we buried the dead where they died because they were martyrs."

"These people would do the same thing."

The Afghans believe al-Qaida and Taliban forces began leaving the area in small groups once the U.S. bombing intensified, using exfiltration techniques refined against the Soviets.

"I remember once the Russians were bombing and bombing," former guerrilla Mullah Mohammed Khaqzar said.

"We left the area in groups of five and 10. We stayed away hidden in the mountains until we knew it was over and then we returned."

Cmdr. Zardran, wrapped in a brown woolen shawl against the wind that whipped thorough his command post south of Gardez, estimated as many as 300 fighters escaped Operation Anaconda and headed toward Pakistan through Urgoon in neighbouring Paktia province.

He believes that constituted most of the al-Qaida and Taliban force arrayed against the coalition when the offensive began March 2.

Abdullah agreed the al-Qaida and Taliban force was smaller than the upper estimates -- some of which ranged as high as 1,000 -- which circulated at the height of the battle.

"When we entered the area, I didn't see any big ammunition stocks and no signs of a big force," Abdullah said.

"It's my idea that there was not that many people even in the bunkers and the caves."

Abdullah knows the area well because he fought there in the 1980s with the U.S.-backed Harakat-e-Inqilab Afghanistan, or Revolutionary Movement of Afghanistan. Khaqzar said the al-Qaida and Taliban fighters will probably travel in small groups throughout the mountain ranges that crisscross Afghanistan until they find a safe place to regroup.

His advice for winning the war is "to know where they are hiding and then send in small commando units to take them out."

"Bombs from B-52s won't defeat al-Qaida or the Taliban," he said.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said in Washington it is too early to tally the success of the 15-day-old assault on enemy hide- outs in mountainous eastern Afghanistan. Even if some survived the assault and eluded capture, they will be pursued so they cannot find safe haven elsewhere, he said.

More such operations could be ahead, U.S. deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz said Saturday.

"There are still significant numbers of terrorists. It's a huge country," Wolfowitz said in an interview on CNN's Novak, Hunt and Shields.

The Pentagon has said repeatedly during the five-month war in Afghanistan stamping out terrorists would be a long, difficult task. And Rumsfeld shrugged off a suggestion the military campaign against terrorists so far has simply pushed al-Qaida from Afghanistan to new refuges in Pakistan and elsewhere.

Rumsfeld said that's not necessarily all bad. He acknowledged fighters had scattered to not only neighbouring countries "but have departed neighbouring countries and gone elsewhere in the world, some to the Middle East and some to elsewhere."

Rumsfeld acknowledged the threat to those countries. But he said the situation is better than it was five months ago because Afghanistan is no longer the sanctuary it was for terrorists when it was run by the Taliban.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: southasialist; talibanlist; warlist
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To: Memother; Atomic_Punk; Bigun; Taxman; Antivenom; Grendel Grey; Gator; Eagle
Ping
21 posted on 03/17/2002 5:12:36 AM PST by dixie sass
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To: Clive
"Americans don't listen to anyone," said Cmdr. Abdul Wali Zardran.

What?

22 posted on 03/17/2002 5:14:48 AM PST by JamesWilson
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To: Clive
The Afghan commanders have their own agenda, which may include taking bribes to allow the Talibunnies to escape. By being kept in the background, we are hurting their cash flow
23 posted on 03/17/2002 5:15:54 AM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: Tuor
No offense taken. Sounds as if you know and have experience on how the "game" is played. I continue to have "faith" in the current command but "faith without works" is short lived. Rummy seems to tell it like it is, but the Command needs to zip up the lips of these IO's and certainly needs to keep the "press" in the dark, only allowing "them" to play their little guessing games, which are consistently wrong.

I wish I could ignore the nagging surges I am feeling, but I can't. And we simply can not be drawn into another "guerrilla war" without end. I am all for using tactical WMD if that is what it takes to put a punctuation mark on this thing. Either that or simply pull out now and build "Fortress America".

I am smelling incrementalism and it is more pungent than Napalm in the morning.

24 posted on 03/17/2002 5:16:06 AM PST by ImpBill
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To: EODGUY
When I was in the military, we had a name for leaders such as these, but I can't repeat it on this site.

My father (who is a Vietnam vet) just told me a few. He also had some advice: don't trust flakes... makes sense to me.

25 posted on 03/17/2002 5:18:27 AM PST by grimalkin
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To: grimalkin
If we had listened to them during the entirety of this operation, we'd be in deep s**t.

And of course we're not.

26 posted on 03/17/2002 5:22:39 AM PST by Beenliedto
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To: Clive
sounds to me like these guys were shown up and have had to take a back seat to real fighting men.....
27 posted on 03/17/2002 5:23:12 AM PST by The Wizard
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To: grimalkin
Since you dad and I are of the same era, I am confident the names he gave you are the same ones I couldn't print.

EODGUY

28 posted on 03/17/2002 5:23:12 AM PST by EODGUY
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To: EODGUY
Our forces are in Afghanistan to rout and destroy terrorists

And, of course, to secure the country politically so that construction of the pipeline can begin.

29 posted on 03/17/2002 5:26:01 AM PST by Beenliedto
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: abwehr
Let's just declare victory and leave. Been done before under George the First and the people fell for it.
31 posted on 03/17/2002 5:36:36 AM PST by Jefferson1776
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To: Clive
Let Afghans fight Afghans. It's been a tribal mess for thousands of years. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda have been smashed. The remnants can be handled by other Afghans. Time to declare mission accomplished and leave like the Brits and the Russians did. Let's not wait around for a Gandamakh. Do we really want to keep that place as a colony?
32 posted on 03/17/2002 5:38:45 AM PST by Eternal_Bear
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To: Clive
This is the third source I've seen this morning that indicates that we managed to kill around 50 of the bad guys, not the 400-500 mentioned by others. I certainly don't know which is correct, but I'd sure like to know. I think we ignore what the Afghanistanis are saying at our peril. They've been at this business for years.
33 posted on 03/17/2002 5:39:20 AM PST by CrossCheck
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To: Beenliedto
When I use the term "forces", I only include those military men and women below command staff level. They are the ones who are where the action is and risk their lives.

Politicians and politically motivated command staff lapdogs may indeed see this as a two-pronged war, one to eliminate terrorists and the second to create a political environment that will grant the US access to Afghan oil deposits.

The true warriors are the ones who suffer when local military leaders elect to turn tail and attempt to cover their cowardly backsides by demeaning the successes of our forces.

34 posted on 03/17/2002 5:39:27 AM PST by EODGUY
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To: Clive
We'll have to restrain our emotions and listen to good sense and experience if we are to succeed in suppressing Taliban and al-Qaeda elements in Afghanistan. Apart from the terrorists, two contending forces are opposed here. One is the U.S. military, which has the strong inclination to "go big on the ground" because that's where promotions are for mid- and senior-level officers. The other is the media, including most of the U.S. media, which has the strong inclination to report negatively about all U.S. military activity. Some of them want to see us defeated in Afghanistan because that would serve their political agenda in the U.S.

While Afghan miliary commanders are willing, even eager, to portray U.S. forces as inexperienced and their leadership as inept (we are, after all, foreigners as are al-Qaeda), there is more than a grain of reality in their view. As long as the terrorists have a sanctuary in the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan, they cannot be defeated by bombs and frontal assault in Afghanistan -- as the Russians learned. Afghans have a hunch that we will soon tire of tearing up the landscape and go somewhere else. I have a hunch they are right.

If we let the U.S. military move large land forces into Afghanistan and "fight the last war," we will greatly regret it. If we let the media establish the measures of success then act as referee in this conflict, we will greatly regret it. (One example: the media have already gone far in establishing that if U.S. forces suffer any casualties in any firefight, the terrorists win it.)

There are no big promotions for military bureaucrats in successful waging of war against determined, experienced guerillas. The rules are few but implacable. You cannot permit them to have a sanctuary for resting, regrouping, and resupplying. You cannot bring them to set-piece battle where our superior technology is overwhelming. You can use superior technology as it was used at the Whale's Back -- to make a regrouping force disperse. Frontal assault is a useful device in further encouraging the guerilla force to disperse, but the key elements are blocking and tracking by mobile small-unit tactical teams of special forces trained especially for this kind of warfare. This we failed to do in Gardez, where Afghan troops were the (porous) blocking force that permitted the guerillas to disperse into surrounding villages or flee into sanctuary in Pakistan's nearby Northwest Frontier Province. (You have to remember that our Afghan allies are interested in their own success and survival, not ours.) Thus, we expended a great deal of force for little visible result. Ergo, in the media's reporting, we lost the battle (further proof being that Americans were killed).

We will have other chances, that's for sure. The Afghans and al-Queda will be there just as long as we want to stay. Apart from utter genocide (killing everyone in Afghanistan), there is no way to bring this kind of conflict to a successful military conclusion </> with a permanent resolution. To succeed we must accomplish a temporary conclusion with a temporary resolution -- reduce Taliban and al-Qaeda effectiveness for the short-term to where they cannot dominate Afghanistan and cannot organize terror strikes against the U.S. on our soil. To succeed in the long-term we must succeed step-by-step in the short-term. The battle at the Whale's Back was not a step in the right direction.

35 posted on 03/17/2002 5:50:09 AM PST by Whilom
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To: Clive

"Operation Anaconda...is an incredible success," said Maj. Bryan Hilferty, spokesman of the U.S. 10th Mountain Division.


Afghan commanders... stated that...the recent U.S. offensive against al-Qaida fighters in eastern Afghanistan failed


The Afgans are angered that the US no longer relies on the Northerm Alliance to battle the enemy. The US forces started to minimize the intelligence given to the N.O. commanders, and regulated them to minor activites when the mountain of evidence of their complicity with the enemy become overwhelming.


Initially, it was thought that the Taliban escapes were accidental. Then it was believed that it was part of the culture there. Then, it was found out that payoffs and bribes were involved. The final event was when over 5000 Taliban prisoners, captured by US forces, were turned over to the N.O. for treatment. And then, after a period of two nights they were released.


Since then, the N.O. has been left out of all military action. Their involvement is minimized, because their trustworthyness has been compromised.


36 posted on 03/17/2002 5:54:40 AM PST by vannrox
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To: ImpBill
I haven't seen any evidence that we are getting permission from the UN to bomb selected targets.........YET! This certainly effected our bombing success in NV.
37 posted on 03/17/2002 9:05:40 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
Well I don't know about the UN, but I do recall in the "other war" that we had all sorts of different "fire zones" of which not many were "free fire zones". Many we had to have permission from regional civilian authorities (rife with cong influence), regional military authorities (man of whom were not to be trusted), and in other instances only a Bridage CO or higher could get and then give us permission to "rain death" on the little buggers. I could lauch into a war story here but will stiffle it.

Bottom line is that each day we are in Afganistan "cleaning up" I get the "mission creep" heebie jeebies.

38 posted on 03/17/2002 10:21:56 AM PST by ImpBill
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To: *Taliban_list;*War_list;*SouthAsia_list
Check the Bump List folders for articles related to and descriptions of the above topic(s) or for other topics of interest.
39 posted on 03/17/2002 10:22:57 AM PST by Free the USA
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To: ImpBill
Hi my dear friend.Thank you for the ping. I agree with your post so much. Thank you!!!!!
40 posted on 03/17/2002 10:25:49 AM PST by Snow Bunny
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