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The cross: A symbol, but of what?
AP via Providence Journal ^ | 3/16/02 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 03/16/2002 6:42:19 AM PST by LarryLied

It's the most familiar symbol you can imagine, but ponder for a moment how odd it is that Christians display an "emblem of suffering and shame," as the hymn says.

The cross reminds us that Jesus was executed as a common criminal, hardly the upbeat message a publicist might choose.

Yet two decades after Calvary, the Apostle Paul wrote, "Far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Galatians 6:14). Under this mysterious emblem, the early Christians vanquished the empire that had crucified Jesus.

The symbol holds 21st-century power. Two days after the World Trade Center attack, a rescue worker wept as he discovered a 20-foot cross -- two fused metal beams buried in the rubble. This cross provided comfort to impromptu worshippers amid the mourning.

Yet the cross is spurned by Christian liberals Rita Nakashima Brock and Rebecca Ann Parker. They find belief in Jesus' saving death repellent, saying this sanctifies violence and submission to evil.

"To say that Jesus' executioners did what was historically necessary for salvation is to say that state terrorism is a good thing, that torture and murder are the will of God," they say in their book Proverbs of Ashes (Beacon).

Brock, a Harvard Divinity researcher, has chaired the joint global ministries board of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and United Church of Christ, and was a theology speaker at the Disciples's national assembly last year. Parker is a United Methodist Church minister and president of the Unitarian Universalist seminary in Berkeley, Calif.

Roman Catholic leftist John Dominic Crossan has joined in, hailing the authors' attack upon what he considers "the most unfortunately successful idea in the history of Christian thought." And the current Unitarian Universalist magazine features Brock and Parker in a cover story headlined "Violence and Doctrine: How Christianity Twists the Meaning of Jesus' Death."

"Perfect . . . sacrifice"

By contrast, another current author joins Paul in glorying in the cross. Fleming Rutledge, a traveling Episcopal preacher who lives in Port Chester, N.Y., embraces the Book of Common Prayer's Communion affirmation that Jesus Christ made "a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world."

Rutledge has collected seasonal meditations in her book The Undoing of Death (Eerdmans). Though sermons often fall flat on the printed page, this book is unusually readable devotional fare.

She believes the cross is misunderstood if we forget that Jesus the Son is equally God along with the Father (which liberal Christians and Unitarians deny). And some conservatives portray "a wrathful Father piling condemnation on an innocent, victimized Son. This mistake must be strenuously resisted," she writes.

The heart of the atoning sacrifice on the cross, Rutledge insists, is "the fact that the Father's will and the Son's will are one. This is an action that the Father and the Son are taking together." They are "accomplishing our redemption together," acting in united love for humanity.

However, her Good Friday sermons worry less about such liberal or conservative theories than about people's inclination to pretend their sins aren't all that bad so they have no need of a Savior.

"We do not like to believe that we deserve condemnation," she says.

Some seek to justify themselves by the kind of people they like to think they are -- more moral, sensitive, loving, intelligent, thoughtful, patriotic, fashionable or socially aware than others. Then there's the opposite, people who tell themselves they're more misunderstood, long-suffering and deserving than anyone else.

But Christianity says we're all sinners in the light of God's holiness. Despite sin, Rutledge believes, when Christ looks at someone "he sees a person that he loves more than life, more than glory, more than power, more than riches, more than divinity itself."

She also contends that the cross shows us Christianity is true. The reason? Mere human imagination or wishful thinking would never have concocted "a despised and rejected Messiah."



TOPICS: General Discusssion
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To: Matchett-PI
Show me a Christian who can't say "damn", and I'll show you a neurotic legalist.

Ohhhhh nooooooooooo

I must be a neurotic legalist..I think it..but never say it.......well at least not in anyones hearing:>)))

381 posted on 03/27/2002 5:51:02 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
"... well at least not in anyones hearing:>)))"

LOL!!

Try it in a neurotic legalist's hearing sometime. It's fun to keep 'em off balance. :D

382 posted on 03/27/2002 6:04:16 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Matchett-PI
Have your little laugh M-PI. The truth is, you along with OP are one of the few people that I enjoy seeing post. I have to yell at myself every day for my temper and sometimes letting it get the best of me and repent over my outbursts so it's not that I think I'm any better than Rev 911 in that regard.

Let him confide in one of you as a pastor-- there's something wrong there spiritually. If you care about him, ask him what's wrong. I've spent some time today praying for him. My sincerest regards, TTC

383 posted on 03/27/2002 6:24:41 PM PST by la$tminutepardon
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To: Cvengr
When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of Glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.

I too noticed a lull amidst all the chaos today, and I received the peace of God that I asked for. Perhaps it was God's reminder of what the passover means and how Jesus is our Pesach lamb. Would to God the angel of death had passed over Israel today. My heart just breaks for those people.

384 posted on 03/27/2002 7:06:40 PM PST by 1lawlady
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To: 1lawlady
Thank You Lord that you still love them.

Good post, I concur.

385 posted on 03/27/2002 7:17:24 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: 1lawlady
Thank You Lord that You still love them.

Good post, I concur.

386 posted on 03/27/2002 7:17:45 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: rdb3
Amen. BTW: I heard a former viatnam POW describe a method of torture they used where they were able to stop the flow of blood out of the limbs without restricting the flow of blood into the limbs. If they kept it up long enough, the blood pressure would cause Hematidrosis in the limbs.
387 posted on 03/27/2002 7:34:59 PM PST by Grig
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To: rdb3
How long has it been with the Mormons that they believed the curse was lifted off of dark-skinned people?

Cain was cursed for what he did, and the mark was put on him as a protection. The mark passed on to his decendants, but they are not under his curse.

You think I dont' know that history about the LDS church?

I think you are demonstrating that you don't have all the fact as you think you do. Blacks have always been welcomed and well treated. Other churches (yours even?) would look the other way if a white master member slept with a black slave of his whereas we would excommunicate anyone who did that. The Church's anti-slavery stand was yet another reason other 'christians' formed mobs against us.

Holding the priesthood is not a requirment for salvation, and in the past God has limited it to only the sons of Levi, so if you want to be consistant, you would have to say that every other Isrealite and Gentile used to be 'cursed' as well.

Any faith that changes was never perfect to begin with.

So then when Peter got a revelation to take the gosple to the Gentiles, that is proof to you that Chrisianity is not a perfect faith? FYI, it was prophecied at least as far back as Brigham Young that the day would come when the priesthood would be given to them too, so it is not any more of a change than Peter's revelation was.

388 posted on 03/27/2002 7:51:20 PM PST by Grig
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To: Cvengr
And thank you Lord that you are our covenant-keeping God. I rest on your promise as found in Isaiah 45:17 and Romans 11:26:"But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation. You will not be ashamed or confounded world without end." "And so all Israel shall be saved. As it is written: There shall come out of Zion a Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is my covenant with them."
389 posted on 03/27/2002 7:58:03 PM PST by 1lawlady
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To: Revelation 911
Some people think that I'm easily upset by a few curse words Rev, but it's not the case. Personally,I think you want to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you've got your friends and family thinking that you do, but in your heart you're having doubts, and there's nothing wrong with doubting, but you have to pray and stay in the Word. It would be good if you could also fellowship with other believers. Is this true or do you know and accept as true in your heart that the Lord Jesus died to save you? Thanks, TTC
390 posted on 03/28/2002 5:23:27 AM PST by la$tminutepardon
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To: la$tminutepardon
although we spoke via freep - I'll say it publicly here - I will proclaim Jesus Christ as the divine Son of God until my last breath. He is the Messiah and saviour of mankind.
391 posted on 03/28/2002 9:00:40 AM PST by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
and the savior of Revelation 911 and of la$tminutepardon and of Whosoever * * therefore shall confess * me before men *, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Matt 10:32. God bless you my friend.
392 posted on 03/28/2002 10:03:04 AM PST by la$tminutepardon
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To: la$tminutepardon,CCWoody,all
Easter bump

Ps 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

How many will publicly acknowledge Him this Easter?

393 posted on 03/28/2002 10:49:16 AM PST by la$tminutepardon
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To: la$tminutepardon;Revelation 911;CCWoody;Wrigley;Matchett-PI
The Cross Christians Cling to.......Blessed Easter if we do not cross paths before

JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS
JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS
JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS
JESUS





CHRIST



CRUCIFIED



RISEN

394 posted on 03/28/2002 1:11:22 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Your #394:

Thanks, Terry!

How great the wisdom and the love
That filled the courts on high
And sent the Savior from above
To suffer, bleed, and die!

His precious blood He freely spilt
His life He freely gave
A sinless sacrifice for guilt
A dying world to save

He marked the path and led the way
And every point defines
To light and life and endless day
Where God's full presence shines

How great, how glorious, how complete
Redemption's grand design
Where justice, love, and mercy meet
In harmony divine!

Everyone, have a most sacred celebration of our Lord's atoning sacrifice and glorious resurrection this weekend!
395 posted on 03/28/2002 3:48:24 PM PST by White Mountain
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To: Grig
Your #388:

Thanks, that was excellent! I have some other replies to get to on this thread, don't I? I am a little behind.

396 posted on 03/28/2002 4:00:44 PM PST by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain
Our Savior's Love

Our Savior's love Shines like the sun with perfect light,
As from above It breaks thru clouds of strife.
Lighting our way, It leads us back into his sight,
Where we may stay To share eternal life.

The Spirit, voice Of goodness, whispers to our hearts
A better choice Than evil's anguished cries.
Loud may the sound Of hope ring till all doubt departs,
And we are bound To him by loving ties.

Our Father, God Of all creation, hear us pray
In rev'rence, awed By thy Son's sacrifice.
Praises we sing. We love thy law; we will obey.
Our heav'nly King, In thee our hearts rejoice.

Our Savior's Love, 113 - Edward L. Hart (© 1977 LDS)

397 posted on 03/28/2002 6:19:33 PM PST by restornu
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To: Grig
It’s amazing how the scriptures can lay dormant,
until one study in the Spirit of the Lord
to awaken the subtle truths to ponder.
Thank you Grig.
398 posted on 03/28/2002 6:29:32 PM PST by restornu
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To: LarryLied
Was Jesus our Lord God in human form here on earth?
399 posted on 03/28/2002 6:47:27 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
Thanks for the link. The sentiment expressed is very Unitarian (or Arian). We'll see if that is the case.
400 posted on 03/28/2002 7:01:40 PM PST by LarryLied
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