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The cross: A symbol, but of what?
AP via Providence Journal ^ | 3/16/02 | RICHARD N. OSTLING

Posted on 03/16/2002 6:42:19 AM PST by LarryLied

It's the most familiar symbol you can imagine, but ponder for a moment how odd it is that Christians display an "emblem of suffering and shame," as the hymn says.

The cross reminds us that Jesus was executed as a common criminal, hardly the upbeat message a publicist might choose.

Yet two decades after Calvary, the Apostle Paul wrote, "Far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Galatians 6:14). Under this mysterious emblem, the early Christians vanquished the empire that had crucified Jesus.

The symbol holds 21st-century power. Two days after the World Trade Center attack, a rescue worker wept as he discovered a 20-foot cross -- two fused metal beams buried in the rubble. This cross provided comfort to impromptu worshippers amid the mourning.

Yet the cross is spurned by Christian liberals Rita Nakashima Brock and Rebecca Ann Parker. They find belief in Jesus' saving death repellent, saying this sanctifies violence and submission to evil.

"To say that Jesus' executioners did what was historically necessary for salvation is to say that state terrorism is a good thing, that torture and murder are the will of God," they say in their book Proverbs of Ashes (Beacon).

Brock, a Harvard Divinity researcher, has chaired the joint global ministries board of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and United Church of Christ, and was a theology speaker at the Disciples's national assembly last year. Parker is a United Methodist Church minister and president of the Unitarian Universalist seminary in Berkeley, Calif.

Roman Catholic leftist John Dominic Crossan has joined in, hailing the authors' attack upon what he considers "the most unfortunately successful idea in the history of Christian thought." And the current Unitarian Universalist magazine features Brock and Parker in a cover story headlined "Violence and Doctrine: How Christianity Twists the Meaning of Jesus' Death."

"Perfect . . . sacrifice"

By contrast, another current author joins Paul in glorying in the cross. Fleming Rutledge, a traveling Episcopal preacher who lives in Port Chester, N.Y., embraces the Book of Common Prayer's Communion affirmation that Jesus Christ made "a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world."

Rutledge has collected seasonal meditations in her book The Undoing of Death (Eerdmans). Though sermons often fall flat on the printed page, this book is unusually readable devotional fare.

She believes the cross is misunderstood if we forget that Jesus the Son is equally God along with the Father (which liberal Christians and Unitarians deny). And some conservatives portray "a wrathful Father piling condemnation on an innocent, victimized Son. This mistake must be strenuously resisted," she writes.

The heart of the atoning sacrifice on the cross, Rutledge insists, is "the fact that the Father's will and the Son's will are one. This is an action that the Father and the Son are taking together." They are "accomplishing our redemption together," acting in united love for humanity.

However, her Good Friday sermons worry less about such liberal or conservative theories than about people's inclination to pretend their sins aren't all that bad so they have no need of a Savior.

"We do not like to believe that we deserve condemnation," she says.

Some seek to justify themselves by the kind of people they like to think they are -- more moral, sensitive, loving, intelligent, thoughtful, patriotic, fashionable or socially aware than others. Then there's the opposite, people who tell themselves they're more misunderstood, long-suffering and deserving than anyone else.

But Christianity says we're all sinners in the light of God's holiness. Despite sin, Rutledge believes, when Christ looks at someone "he sees a person that he loves more than life, more than glory, more than power, more than riches, more than divinity itself."

She also contends that the cross shows us Christianity is true. The reason? Mere human imagination or wishful thinking would never have concocted "a despised and rejected Messiah."



TOPICS: General Discusssion
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To: Ward Smythe;the_doc;OrthodoxPresbyterian
To the contrary, I have been told by your compatriots - and made a great deal about it on another thread that you do indeed have "all the answers." AND, you have told me yourself that you do not need to consider my position.

You contine with the childish nit picking as if it is some deep spiritual truth Ward

OP said that he had all the answers..he was speaking of the truth of scripture..IF YOU do not believe that the bible has all truth in it we work from a different base..and will never find any agreement!

101 posted on 03/19/2002 1:22:26 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: the_doc; Bigg Red
Some of my ex-RC friends have told me that the crosses and other objects which they formerly in church just made them feel religious.

I love beautiful churches. anyone that can not be "moved " by the art work at St.Peters is a rock :>)) We have a Basilica near my home. It is the first place I take visitors to our area. I do not take them there because it is a "religious experience" but a human experience to see the work of great artists.I do not need a work of man to worship the God of creation..That is His grace . Actually I find all that artwork a distraction from what is really important.That "still small voice"

102 posted on 03/19/2002 1:31:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Wrigley
Self ping
103 posted on 03/19/2002 1:40:12 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: RnMomof7
Actually I find all that artwork a distraction from what is really important.That "still small voice"

I was waiting for you to say that. I find it distracting, too, but I don't have as much credibility when I say it, because I am not an an ex-RC.

104 posted on 03/19/2002 1:42:04 PM PST by the_doc
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To: RnMomof7; xzins; forthedeclaration; winstonchurchill; ShadowAce
I am not going to have this argument with you again.

O.P. said you have all the answers. (and got several hearty amens)
Doc said he didn't have to consider my position. (and got several hearty amens)

I believe the Bible has all the truth.

I don't believe you do.

And you have a lot of nerve calling anyone a childish nit picker.

105 posted on 03/19/2002 2:38:55 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
And you have a lot of nerve calling anyone a childish nit picker.

Sorry low blow !!

I think it is time to drop the "charge " against OP..If he posts again ask him.

106 posted on 03/19/2002 2:49:58 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Sorry low blow !!

Yes, your calling me childish was a low blow. I'm glad we can agree.

107 posted on 03/19/2002 3:30:38 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
Yes, your calling me childish was a low blow. I'm glad we can agree.

LOL you are so gracious!

108 posted on 03/19/2002 3:41:45 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Wrigley
Self ping

Does that hurt?

109 posted on 03/19/2002 3:48:27 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
Not as much as when I try to understand your posts.
110 posted on 03/19/2002 3:57:56 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: Wrigley
Yes, the truth hurts.
111 posted on 03/19/2002 4:01:10 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
Here is something else that might hurt...

I just finished an interesting book on the Mormons. Did you know that Wesley was one of the people that the Mormons baptized into thier "church" after he died? I now know why you were willing to agree with the Mormons a few threads ago.

Seriously though, I was amazed with who the Mormons posthumously baptized.

112 posted on 03/19/2002 4:43:49 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: LarryLied
The cross: A symbol, but of what?

The quartering of the universe into its 4 elemental components: Earth, Water, Wind and Fire.

113 posted on 03/19/2002 4:51:10 PM PST by DoctorMichael
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To: Wrigley
Did you know that Wesley was one of the people that the Mormons baptized into thier "church" after he died?

I think I knew that. There's a lot of people on that list though. It's one of the reasons they have such incredible genealogy records.

I now know why you were willing to agree with the Mormons a few threads ago.

Just tryin to cover the bases...

114 posted on 03/19/2002 5:20:05 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: LarryLied
Yet the cross is spurned by Christian liberals Rita Nakashima Brock and Rebecca Ann Parker. They find belief in Jesus' saving death repellent, saying this sanctifies violence and submission to evil. "To say that Jesus' executioners did what was historically necessary for salvation is to say that state terrorism is a good thing, that torture and murder are the will of God," they say in their book Proverbs of Ashes (Beacon).

HAVE THEY FOREGOTTEN THAT JESUS HAD TO DIE?!?!

115 posted on 03/19/2002 5:22:57 PM PST by katherineisgreat
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To: Wrigley
Seriously though, I was amazed with who the Mormons posthumously baptized.

Makes you wonder if Joseph Smith baptized his Puritan ancestors.

116 posted on 03/19/2002 6:34:19 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
The way the list read, anyone who could help them get ANY credibility was baptized. Maybe it was just the book I read, but everything that was done, was done for a political reason. IMO, JS started it as a get rich quick scheme, and when he saw it would work, he just added stuff on.

Now, if I were to read an objective history written by a mormon, I would see the other side.

117 posted on 03/20/2002 3:54:33 AM PST by Wrigley
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To: LarryLied
when Christ looks at someone "he sees a person that he loves more than life, more than glory, more than power, more than riches, more than divinity itself."
118 posted on 03/20/2002 4:37:04 AM PST by THEUPMAN
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To: Wrigley
The way the list read, anyone who could help them get ANY credibility was baptized.

I think you're right. In addition, my understanding is that you can "marry" someone for "time and eternity" and a lot of Mormon women "married" Brigham Young posthumously (for him, not them).

I'm reading a biography of Smith myself. Don't tell Mom.

119 posted on 03/20/2002 5:11:14 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
Which one?

The book I just finished is One Nation Under Gods, by Richard Abanes. I recommend it. The chapter "Are Mormons Christians?" is excellent.

120 posted on 03/20/2002 5:50:34 AM PST by Wrigley
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