FBI's use of deadly force demands accountability

Baltimore Sun ^ | 14 March 2002 | David Simon

[Lloyd227]

In this country, only a law enforcement officer has the authority to use deadly force against fellow citizens in time of peace.

As a well-armed society, we find it necessary to arm our law officers as a consequence and to accept that they will have to use those weapons as an act of personal deliberation.

This is an extraordinary right. But on foot patrol, in a radio car, on drug raids or during car stops, there can be no body politic to deliberate such matters.

[weikel]

I made two typos in 1 posts grrr. I must look like a moron.

[cynicom]

Lloyd...

The telling point is that at Ruby Ridge and at Waco, NOT ONE OFFICER walked away, not one refused to gun down their fellow Americans. These were not vicious criminals. They were all citizens that the law enforcement people had inserted themselves into their lives.

In the Maryland case, they really let the Federal Cowboys loose on the range.

Proof of the pudding is that the perp cowboy will walk. They will admit it was a mistake, but, they will say he said something or made some motion that WARRANTED the cowboy protecting his own life.

[Twodees]

Yep, Simon should have said, "Of all public tit addicts only police are allowed to carry guns on their jobs." Of course, that would have been a lie, too, but at least it wouldn't have been as stupid-sounding a lie. Simon is a cop groupie. He does go on to make a few good points, but overall he doesn't express the outrage that many citizens feel over this incident and what it reveals about FBI policy.

Thwy way I view it, FLE abdicates its authority when it tries to shirk its responsibility. The FBI is an absolutely worthless agency for the kind of government laid out in the Constitution. There should be one Federal LE agency, the US Marshall's service. Criminal law is not the province of the federal government except in a very few areas. We don't need any of these bogus agencies and all but the one permitted by the Constitution should be disbanded.

[Twodees]

I agree with your view. Cops have been granted an authority necessary to perform their jobs. That authority simply subjects them to special constraints which do not apply to other citizens.

Simon switched terms between his first statement and his attempt to clarify that statement. He should stick to writing cop shows because he doesn't have the discernment for this sort of subject.

[Twodees]

I think the agent should be tried in a state court. If convicted of assault with intent to kill and attempted murder, he should get life in prison. He has stated that he fired intentionally. That should give the AG a basis for both of the charges I mentioned.

Of course,if our Constitution was recognized by Congress as the law of the land, that agent would never have had a job interfering with local law enforcement because the ridiculous agency he works for wouldn't exist. I've heard that he and his fellow agents were seen giving each other "high fives". I'm afraid that if I had witnessed that, there would be a much different discussion going on here.

[Lloyd227]

"I'm afraid that if I had witnessed that, there would be a much different discussion going on here."

Understood, I'm afraid I might be in jail or dead myself had I witnessed such depravity following these circumstances.

Question is, other than the girl, where are the witnesses to this? I'm sure there must have been some, and there are private investigators on this case. Wonder where those witness are?

[PatrioticAmerican]

The ultimate accountability is in the 2nd.

[PatrioticAmerican]

Hell, Travis, as long as there is no oversight, and no pain in return, these thugs will do this more and more. Imagine the decency these idiots would have if they suffered in return each and every time. Of course, our government prosecutors will not prosecute a government agent.

[Alas Babylon!]

Local FBI officials said they were following a bureau-wide policy in refusing to identify the responsible agent. Perhaps, but the policy is both wrong and contemptuous of the citizenry the FBI seeks to serve. Beyond that, the agent in charge of the Baltimore office suggested that the anonymity of agents needs to be maintained to protect them from possible retribution.

What really erks me about this statement, and so many of us have missed, is that this may be somewhat alright if it was an agent who had shot a perp. But that is not the case at all. This agent shot an innocent man who had NOTHING to do with ANY criminal activity. There's no way in HELL that the policy applies here. I'll bet 10 to 1 that the policy was originally applied to keep mafia dons and drug dealers from going after agents who shot their homies. It should not and cannot be used by Special Agent Hunt and the FBI hierarchy to prevent disclosure when an innocent is shot.

Dang! I WANT to support the government and law enforcement. How can they be so arrogant? This case is turning me from a law and order supporter to one who is now distrustful of them. They all need to be fired. No one is above the law, and this BETTER NOT be swept under the rug. I post often on Free Republic about various things, but very rarely take it beyond this forum. I have the urge now, and WILL, write my representatives expressing my outrage and a demand for accountability. I'm most concerned about how the FBI is handling this in such a arrogant manner.

[Travis McGee]

I wonder what the govt reaction would be if 6 months from now Schultz' father tracked Braga down, jumped him in his car at a redlight, and put a 9mm through his face.

Think that they would still be cavalier, or suddenly outraged beyond belief?

To me, the father's understandable rage would be a more valid excuse than Braga's itchy trigger finger and excess testosterone.

[Travis McGee]

Thanks!

[Travis McGee]

#36: GREAT POINT!!

[Travis McGee]

Sooner or later an agrieved citizen is going to petition for redress under Rule 308.

Watch for all hell to break loose then. Suddenly the cavalier feds will stir like an ant nest kicked open.

[PatrioticAmerican]

You bet! An eye for an eye!

[Twodees]

Probably, the PIs will have to be very careful with witnesses, but I can't imagine there not being some witnesses. The FBI has already shown us in the Patrick Knowlton case that they are ready and willing to intimidate witnesses.

[Twodees]

Was that rule .308? My old eyes ain't what they once were. ;-) You're right. Those stone-faced heroes just go to pieces when one of their own is hit. The behavior of the BATFags after they tried to get into the Davidian church is on video in the film "Waco:A New Revelation". I never saw such a bunch of wet-pantied pissants in my life. They were happy to assault an unarmed TV cameraman but they were all carrying some smelly loads in their BVDs, you could tell by the timbre of their voices.

[Travis McGee]

In their constellation, one fed is worth 100 peasants.

[Travis McGee]

I'm not for that usually, but it really seems that the feds just consider themselves untouchables, better than ordinary peasants and far above the laws they enforce upon us.

[Twodees]

To me, the BATF is a criminal organization, engaged in an ongoing conspiracy to destroy my beloved country. How they view me doesn't worry me at all. I kind of suspect that you almost give a $#!+ what they think of you too. ;-)

If you haven't seen that footage, get hold of that movie and take a look at those pissants. I wouldn't want any of them on my side in a fight. Darnedest bunch of chickenpoops and foot shooters I ever saw.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I hear ya. If the courts work, then let them. If they won't, then the law is what the people choose it to be, just like the Wild West.