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1 posted on 03/09/2002 5:41:26 PM PST by freedom9
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To: Physicist
bump
2 posted on 03/09/2002 5:49:56 PM PST by Gladwin
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To: freedom9
The matter-energy universe is tangible, dynamic, and alive. The space-time universe is empty, still, and lifeless. We've been misleading ourselves.
5 posted on 03/09/2002 6:00:17 PM PST by Consort
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To: freedom9
Theories are useful when there is math that makes non-obvious predictions. This is why Einstein gets so much credit for his Theory of Relativity. When anything with mass is caused to move with a high velocity, its' mass increases. As this object approaches the speed of light, its' mass becomes infinite. So, light itself must be massless, or it could not travel at the speed of light. Light does have momentum (IIRC).

These things are predicted from Einstein's math, and are well supported by experiment.

6 posted on 03/09/2002 6:10:05 PM PST by Gladwin
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To: freedom9
In the physical realm, I don’t believe that
there is such an entity as a massless particle.

The term particle, I should think, has mass
built into it by definition.  But if you will
consider the wave/particle duality of
matter, does a wave have mass?

7 posted on 03/09/2002 6:13:07 PM PST by gcruse
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To: freedom9
Well I barely understand what you are talking about but it makes me think of something along these veins I've pondered much, and more and more in latter years.

When I was a boy, forty years ago, an atheist had some pretty firm ground to stand on. Really it was already too late for him but your average atheist's concept of the cosmos was not all that fantastic or limitless. Oh yeah, we had heard by then that the universe was 'infinite' but who amoung us had even the tiniest inkling of infinite?

Then along came guys like Carl Sagan (bless his pagan soul even though he was a godless piker) and the Hubbel telescope. Now we have pictures of galaxies scattered thicker than the stars we can see with earthbound telescopes in every direction and we know that each one of them is akin in size to our own and we know that we cannot even really grasp the enormity of our own one little galaxy. But we have an inkling.

We know enough to realize that the universe we can SEE is an impossiblity. It's just impossibly big. The situation we find ourselves in is just ...... impossible. It's almost as impossible believing there is an intelligence, a being, a God who willed the whole thing into being. It's as impossible the scientifically supported 'near fact' that at the moment of the big bang .... nothing became everything Hubble can see at our moment in time. It's all impossible. It's all just too fantastic to grasp.

So the poor atheist today just knows too much. He no longer has a nice neat little scientific universe to postulate as a more creditable alternative to a God created universe. Each idea is equally absurd to our enfeebled little minds. BUT one is now trully free to place his faith with confidence for logic recoils from everything we know as fact now so why fear the decision to have faith in God? One is in an impossible pickle anyway. Ya might as well take the safe bet.

8 posted on 03/09/2002 6:13:35 PM PST by mercy
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To: freedom9
all forces that seem to affect matter on a planetary scale are the exact same as the ones that govern matter or energy in atomic and even quantum scales. I think that the only two forces that have relevance are electrical and gravitational.

The strong and weak nuclear forces? Electron shielding? Gluon attraction? Too bad Physicist isn't here, I'm in over my head..

11 posted on 03/09/2002 6:34:24 PM PST by Pistias
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To: freedom9
Perhaps this post is a singularity... where all known laws of physics fail.
12 posted on 03/09/2002 6:48:38 PM PST by StraightDave
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To: freedom9
Atoms aren't really mostly empty space. Although they say the nucleus has a tiny cross-section compared to the electron shell, the space inside the electron shell is filled with electrons moving in all directions at nearly the speed of light. The electron itself is not small, it is large and fuzzy. Why fuzzy? It is fuzzy because its location cannot be known at any instant, it might not even be particle-like when attached to an atom.

What do you think of the recent stories of the 5th dimension that may be measured in the lab within 3 years? 95% of the mass of the universe is said to be dark matter and dark energy, and resides in this 5th dimension. This 5th dimension is not thought to be almost immeasurably small like the rest of the superstring dimensions, but of the order of millimeters in size. Bigger than neuronal complexes in the brain. Bigger than the amount clipped off the nail with nail clippers. Heard of that? There have been a couple 5th dimension threads on FR recently.

16 posted on 03/09/2002 7:43:33 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: freedom9
In the physical realm, I don’t believe that there is such an entity as a massless particle

How about neutrinos with imaginary mass?

22 posted on 03/09/2002 8:30:29 PM PST by Cruising Speed
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To: freedom9; RadioAstronomer
From RadioAstronomer's post 31:

This particle has a zero rest mass, however, light has relativistic mass (since its traveling at the speed of light “C”) and can be acted on by gravity.

This is the answer to your objection to photons being massless. They have zero rest mass, but they're never at rest. The photoelectric effect (subject of the paper for which Einstein did get a Nobel; he didn't for either special or general relativity) results when photons splat into metal foil like little rocks with enough momentum to knock loose electrons, thereby ionizing and charging the metal.

Photon mass equivalence has tripped me up, too. I once thought I figured out that, if you threw enough mass into a black hole, eventually even the quarks "cook off" and it all turns into photons. Excitedly, I explained to Physicist--do you see the presumption here?--that the mass gravitationally binding the black hole disappears and you get--Tah Dah!--a BIG BANG. So I sat back and waited for him to recommend me for a Nobel.

Instead, he simply told me that mass and energy are equivalent. Photons have energy, so photons have mass. Photons don't just bend under gravity, photons make gravity. A black hole will always be a black hole.

RA, thanks for the ping!

33 posted on 03/10/2002 4:38:39 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: freedom9
A that makes my head hurt, I need to read it after after Church bump...
41 posted on 03/10/2002 6:59:57 AM PST by Gamecock
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